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The AV Club: MST3K and “the Interloper”In today’s “TV Roundtable” at the AV Club, the topic was not just MST3K, not just a particular episode of MST3K (821- TIME CHASERS), but a specific aspect of that episode, vis: Does the appearance of Mike’s surly brother Eddie make him “an effective interloper?” I gather this is just one installment of a whole session of discussions about the “interloper.”
My $0.02: One of the delights of MST3K is that anything — including the kind of narrative complexity and character development these folks are talking about — that got in the way of the JOKES was cheerfully thrown overboard. I fear the roundtable members are searching the MST3K ship for something that was tossed in the drink long ago. But, hey, the comments section is jumpin’ and that’s the real point, right? :-) Just kiddin’, guys. 64 Replies to “The AV Club: MST3K and “the Interloper””Commenting at Satellite News
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OK, one more before I duck out to avoid making too much of myself:
@50
There is no censorship involved here. It’s a private site, not a public service. The site operators have every right to determine what gets discussed here, just like you would have the right to prevent certain people or ads or whatever from intruding into your home.
Also, Sampo and Erhardt have built this site as an immense labor of love. “We,” whoever you meant by “we,” are not going to magically band together to create an alternative site. We (or at least most of us) do not have the time, dedication, connections, or knowledge to build and maintain an excellent site like this.
Rudely attacking the judgement of your hosts, or threatening them with vague suggestions of mutiny, is not a particularly good way to convince them that your perspective is correct – especially when they hold all the technical and legal control, not to mention the rights.
Yeah! I’m gonna start my own MST fan site! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the fan site and the blackjack!
Ah, screw the whole thing.
Everyone really should relax.
Thank you all for your comments, even the abusive ones from people who have never posted here before. :-/
A few things–well, 10 things.
1. We have NOTHING but the UTMOST respect, admiration and affection for Mr. Conniff. And, honestly, Brian and I cannot think of a single instance in which we ever intentionally said or posted or did anything remotely disrespectful toward or about him. It’s possible that entirely innocent turns of phrase or actions may have been perceived as insult or disrespect where none was intended. Naturally, he is welcome to his perspective but, from our perspective, we’ve never intended anything but respect for his current work and gratitude for his brilliant work on the show. He may be angry with us, but we are not angry with him. How could we be? He’s Frank!
2. The regulars already know this, but for the people who just joined (mostly giving phony email addresses) you should know: We don’t get paid by some company to do this. In fact, money to keep it running comes out of pocket pretty often. We both have full-time jobs. We do this, in our spare time, with our own money, because we love the show and we love the cast — all of them.
3. This is NOT about Frank. In fact, what it’s REALLY about is, well, you, or some of you, anyway. This issue came about because, time after time, post-related-to-Frank after post-related-to-Frank, even when we bluntly told you not to, some of our commenters simply could not resist posting political comments. Frank’s public persona is a very political one, and more power to him. We generally find his tweets and posts elsewhere hilarious. Every month without fail we promoted his “Cartoon Dump” shows, and as often as we knew about them we posted about his standup gigs. But the result of his years as a prominent gadfly have led to the situation we now have on the site: neither his supporters nor his detractors have proven themselves capable of staying on topic, and the result has been thread after thread that has had to be shut down. Hang your heads in shame, where applicable.
4. Many months ago, we came up with this solution. We continue to promote Frank’s stuff, but we close the comments, and direct those who wish to comment to his site, or whatever site his work is showing on, where invariably a comment thread is ready and waiting for them. We’ve been doing this for a little while now and, honestly, we’re baffled as to why Frank chose this particular comment thread to draw a line in the sand about. We’ve always thought this was fair, and we still do, this little brouhaha not withstanding.
5. A few people asked why we don’t just zap the political posts individually. We think if you think that through, you’ll see the problem with it. Then we start getting into the game of “this-post-stays-and-this-post-goes.” That’s way worse, and it’s not a tar pit we wish to wade into.
6. Mostly we’ve found your comments interesting, but we have to express some annoyance at those tossing around the word “censorship.” There has been no censorship here at all, no denying of “free speech.” This is a web site in which we discuss MST3K and stuff directly related to it. We stay on topic. There are many many many web sites out there where people talk politics. You surely can find one. Not permitting it here is not censorship. It’s just a very narrow focus. Try to understand that. We don’t HAVE to have comments turned on at all!
7. For the record, Frank has posted comments 37 times in five years (four of those in this thread). We were always delighted on the occasional times he would step in with a comment, but this was hardly an overwhelming presence. Which is why we have to express confusion at the cries of “come back Frank!” He hasn’t gone anywhere. You can still enjoy his work on any number of sites, just as you always could. He’s a busy guy and we will continue to inform you about what he’s doing in the future.
8. We stand by our policy. If this situation comes up again — and we’re sure it will: Frank will very likely produce more of the brilliantly funny “Podhouse 90” webcasts, the most recent of which was the topic of the post that started this — we plan to handle it exactly the same way. For those upset by this, please see item 10.
9. We are saddened, and a little perplexed, that Frank has chosen to make a stink about what we honestly feel was a reasonable approach to a difficult situation–a situation that was NOT his fault, and a solution that was not intended as disrespect. But what this really comes down to, for us, is simply this: We’re adult professionals, and we’re going to do what we think helps the most fans get the news they want without off-topic distractions.
10. For those who find themselves looking for alternatives to Satellite News, may we direct you Forrest’s discussion board at forrestcrow.proboards.com and the MST3K topics on the RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic forums. Fine folks in all those places.
20 bucks says Frank was joking the whole time.
Back to the topic at hand, won’t we?
The article, as has been pointed out, is part of a running series, the current topic of which is interlopers. How MST3K became involved is that this time the show and episode was to be selected by the site’s commenters, many of whom are also Msties (including myself). Nominations were made and votes were cast, and unsurprisingly, MST3K won. Now, the writers seem to have come to the conclusion that this particular episode didn’t really fit the interlopers theme all that well, since Mike-as-Eddie wasn’t really all that Earth-shattering an upheaval to the show compared to Mike-as-Mike, but since it provided an opportunity for everyone involved to talk about the show in general and toss quotes around, it was hardly a complete loss.
If this site starts allowing political comments of any stripe, I will be pushing the button. If this site ever decides to do that, more power to it, but I don’t have to be a part of it.
It’s bad enough that you can’t even talk about the weather these days without people getting up in arms. Last thing I want is to go to a website, about what is probably my all-time favorite show, and encounter venom and vitriol.
For me, MST3K has always been a refuge from the true ugliness of this world. And so has this site.
Sampo, thank you for the thoughtful response. The only point I take any issue with at all is the first one.
I thought that this phrase: “ANYONE who disapproves of this rule, or the way we run this web site, is cordially invited not to visit. Thank you.” came across as a shot aimed at Frank. I read it that way even before Frank responded to it. It came across (to me) as reprimanding Frank in a not so subtle way. Whether that was the intent or not.
Clearly, you’ve done an absolutely amazing job with this site. It’s a true service and obvious labor of love that has provided critical info and entertainment to MSTies across the globe. I’m supremely grateful for it and for your dedication to keeping the MST3K community alive and thriving.
I’m truly only trying to help as I believe it’s likely a misunderstanding or an unfortunate turn of a phrase that caused it to escalate to the point of Frank “leaving.” I know he’s not a regular presence here, but, I always want him to feel welcome on the best site for celebrating the show he was so integral to.
Basically, I love you all. Sunshine and rainbows for everyone!
Remember the one-armed man that George used on Arrested Development in order to teach the Bluth kids a lesson? That’s what this thread is like in regard to the A.V. Club’s article. The lesson?
“Oh God! Look at this mess! There’ve never been interlopers on MST3K!”
“And THAT’S why you don’t choose a subject that makes you grasp at straws so that it fits your topic!”
Jesus Christ, Droppo, try looking for some dignity while you’re down there.
Um, in all fairness, Droppo has no dignity.
Fair enough! :)
I thought this was about “Time Chasers”??
I used to follow Frank on Twitter. It seemed he posted more and more really bitter politically-related tweets. I realized he reminded me of the late Roger Ebert. After he had the cancer surgery and before he died, he went on a really inexplicable anti-Sarah Palin series of tweets, of all things! This I think was before they discovered his cancer had metastasized, and of course he died shortly thereafter.
Frank, if you were seriously ill, would you tell us?