Movie: (1989) In-name-only sequel to the previous movie. Three kingdoms have been overtaken by three evil lords and only Tyor, a teenage boy with magical powers, can restore peace to the land.
Opening: It’s raining and nobody can go out and play
Invention exchange: J&tB have GIF Notes; the Mads have Punt Bunnies
Segment 1: Dark One’s Renaissance Inn and Grille franchise video
Segment 2: Jonah explains the ’80s wizard comedy craze
Segment 3: Grandma Pearl and crew visit and Kinga’s getting married!
Closing: Jonah suggests good movies to counteract various aspects of a bad movie
Stinger: Tyor gets a popeye arm
(61 votes, average: 3.90 out of 5)
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• What’s funny (to me at least) is that this movie feels less cheap than the last one, despite being a sequel. But the story makes even less sense than last week’s movie. The riffing is solid, if not always hilarious. The host segments are hit and miss.
• Great to see Pearl, Brain Guy and Bobo again. I thought this appearance was more relaxed and funny than the last one.
• Grant Baciocco provided the voice of the punt bunny (uncredited).
• I had to look up “eggplant emoji.” I am terminally out of it.
• The segment in which Jonah explains the “’80s wizard comedy craze” seems like a long walk for a very little joke, as Johnny Carson once said.
• I’m guessing, based on Ardy’s mea culpa, that the brief shot in the beginning with people going underwater was longer and involved Carradine battling a sea monster.
• Callbacks: “Time for go to bed!” “The Chicken of Tomorrow.” Also a callback to an earlier season 11 ep: “Use that amulet to contact Big Foot.”
• The setup for the season finale continues, with Kinga dreaming up a wedding scheme.
• Of course, one notable star is Lana Clarkson, who in 2003 was killed by record producer Phil Spector.
• This movie re-uses footage from “Barbarian Queen” (with Lana Clarkson) and “The Warrior and the Sorceress,” (with David Carradine).
• Cast and crew roundup: Director Charles B. Griffith also wrote “The Undead,” “Gunslinger” and “It Conquered the World,” in which he also appeared. Mel Welles also is in “The Undead.” W.T. Zacha was wardrobe supervisor for “The Unearthly.” And we do not need to run through the Roger Corman litany again.
• How many Carradines does this make? Two at least…
• Fave riff: “I’d be more terrified if they both weren’t wearing relaxed-fit Dockers.” Honorable mention: “I’m forming a Stockholm Syndrome situation with David Carradine’s legs.”
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Yeah, I think your logic could use some work, Mike. ;)
Wow. This one was even weirder than the first one! The “wizard” looks a LOT like my dad, the kid was just another Kenny (thanks Brandon!) and we get David Carradine as The Master. Never mind the fact that most of the movie is the wizard and the kid just walking around. Also, was there a “Dresden Files” reference in one riff? I believe Tom said something about Ways during one of the walking scenes. I did enjoy this one because it just seemed like a classic Mike-era episode. And I know need to get the ungodly image of David’s ghostly white legs out of my head.
Just beware of when he says that a word means what he chooses it to mean. :P
The cover of the GIF Notes identifies it as Lady Chatterley’s Lover, which caused quite a scandal back when it was first published.
Ugh, this movie was painful. I previously described the first “Wizards” as earnestly bad. This one was cynically bad, as in “we’re not even trying and we don’t care if you know it.”
David Carradine in particular just screamed “my check better clear the bank or I’m outta here” throughout the whole thing.
Oh and that kid? HATE. I wanted him exterminated with extreme prejudice. Most punchable face imaginable.
Between Phil Spector’s victim in this film and Al Adamson directing next episode’s experiment, we’re in some dark backstory territory, folks.
But it was all worth it for the Punt Bunnies.
I thought I was being harsh, but some of these posts, come on people, stop watching YouTube critics or something. We have the show back, warts and all. Go put on “Basketball Wives”, you’ll come back to this like it’s performance art. :P
I thought that was a reference to the navigation app Waze… but I like your interpretation better!
Again…what is it with this new generation of MST fans? Anybody who doesn’t agree with everything YOU say or think is immediately attacked and vilified. Just like every Hillary/Obama voter who currently riot and kill when somebody dares express an opinion that they don’t agree with(example: the left-wing fascists at Berkeley U who riot and slaughter in order to stop the free speech of people who they don’t agree with). My God. What happened to this country after 8 years of Obama? Hate, violence, and no quarter for any dissenting opinion. How frightening.
I absolutely agree with this assessment. Now I’ll prepare to be viciously attacked for expressing my opinion…
Can we PLEASE leave political opinions off of Satellite News, other than some innocent riffs about First Ladies’ hats or something? I watch MST3K partly to get away from political strife.
All the dissenting opinions remind me that, at the end of the day, I may not always have steak for dinner, but at least I have dinner. So the new season of MST isn’t exactly like a Joel or a Mike episode, but at least I have a new season of it to watch.
Keep that out of this site, idiot. There’s a reason MST doesn’t do political commentary.
But didn’t Penn & Teller already invent Punt Bunnies on one MTV Awards appearance?
(When they tried to show that no real rabbits were harmed in the performance of the magic trick, as Teller, at the end, showed that the rabbit was safe inside his jacket all the time…And, since it was a fake one, punted it out into the audience.) :)
I’m not to hip, so had to look this one up.
Ewwww… thanks, a LOT, internet.
My God.
Ugh. Just ugh.
All we are saaaaayyyyy-iiiiiing….
… is give peace a chaaaaaaaaance…..
…is hike up your paaaaants….
LOL at comments saying the movie is bad.
That’s the whole point. Unbelievable!!
Lol. What the hell does Politics have to do with anything. Yep.. Obama made people argue on the Internet. All his fault.
*Shares opinion as fact in the most a**holish way possible*
“Now watch me get attacked for sharing my opinion!”
Oh my. It seems that some of us are hurt and need to lash out. The rest of us understand. Really, we do. But we humbly request, as per site posting guidelines, that you not lash out here, or at us. There are many places on the internet that welcome and encourage verbal fist fights. Go there if you need to. We’ll still be here when you feel better. And please let’s keep political comments relevant to the show. Like the biography of Rutherford B. Hayes (next on Biography).
And please let’s remember that since he is responsible for the content of this site, our kind unpaid Sampo has to read through all our posts. That’s a lot of work even if it’s enjoyable. And lately I imagine that job has been a bit like examining the inside of a cage inhabited by meth addled crap flinging baboons.
I actually have some observations and comments on this episode I’d like to share. But my constant chronic pain is aggravated by typing, and I need to quit now, having wasted my daily typing allotment on yet another plea for civility. We are not being worthy of our show.
Peacefrog needs a Peaceban. Or let me Peace Ignore for crying out loud. This comment system is slowly losing it’s charm.
How about we agree on this? The Return is about as divisive a thing as it was when Mike took over. While I wasn’t involved in any web discussions back then (I did do BBS work but not anything involving MST3K) I have heard there were very strong opinions expressed, and people hurt on both sides.
We’ve gotten past that, and I’m sure we’ll get past this. Some of us (not many here, but on the other forums where a much larger number of MST3K fans visit I’ve seen a huge percentage that feel as I do) don’t like this effort much. I actually like it better than some of those other folks (and, oddly, get attacked for THAT — weird). I also think there is a substantial difference here in that I did pay some money in advance to support this effort. I make the analogy that if you pay to see a movie you have a right then to critique it, and that’s all I’m doing here. For some odd reason the fact I don’t think it’s very good rankles a lot of folks. Relax. Just because you love it doesn’t make ME mad. I’m not attacking YOU (or even the show, really). I’m not saying you’re a bad person if you like this. We all like different things. Hell, I love anchovies and my wife can’t stand them — somehow we’ve made it through 30 years of marriage without yelling about this even once. This show is more like anchovies than chocolate ice cream, which nearly all people love (not all, but nearly). And that’s okay.
I can see where you’re going with Allison, Lana not so much. I’m more impressed by the spate of (19)80’s TV shows she was in
Three’s Company
The Jeffersons
Knight Rider
The A-Team
Who’s the Boss
Night Court
The Love Boat
Amazing Stories
and top it off with J2&TB’s fave, Wings
I can see where you’re going with Allison, Lana not so much. I’m more impressed by the spate of (19)80’s TV shows she was in
Three’s Company
The Jeffersons
Knight Rider
The A-Team
Who’s the Boss
Night Court
The Love Boat
Amazing Stories
and top it off with J2&TB’s fave, Wings
Call me persnickety, but I don’t think this movie was TRYING to be bad. I think more along the lines of “they just didn’t care.” I think people are judging this with the hindsight of today’s ironic sensibilities. I don’t think it’s fair to project what’s happens today to what happened 30 years ago. I don’t think it was trying to be bad as much as it was just bad.
Oh, and Punt Bunnies was by far my favorite invention exchange of the season.
I wish it were that easy, but today people behave like toxic miscreants. The guys need to man up and start handing out some whoopass to the trolls.
I always saw “mad” as being an abbreviation for “mad scientist.” In this context mad means crazy, not angry. Dr. F was the quintessential mad scientist in my book, egomaniacal AND ineffectual. In fact, I’d go so far to say that everything that was right about the characterization of Dr. F and Pearl is wrong about Kinga. She’s more like daughter of TV’s Frank than the grand-daughter of Pearl… wait a minute. Pearl and Frank always did kinda hit it off. That would explain a lot.
Cornjob: I’m sorry to hear you are in constant chronic pain, and that it is aggravated by typing! I greatly value your posts, and you are definitely one of the reasons I continue visiting this site. (And for what it’s worth, I could name many others — including Sampo and Erhardt, of course! — who keep me coming back. I will refrain from mentioning those who give me constant chronic pain.)
Very much agree! There are some shining examples of class, wit, and intelligent discussion on this site that make my time spent here enjoyable, and really like a community. And no, they don’t necessarily agree with me, but they do express their insights and opinions thoughtfully without a chip on their shoulder or an agenda to advance.
And… prayers and all the best to you, Cornjob!
Mike–and it’s ironic that I’M now bashing heads against walls continuing to tell you this–we have gotten past this. In fact, it’s not only become the least divisive thing since Joel v. Mike, I’ve seen it help heal some of the Joel vs. Mike gaps. (As a few more people are coming forward to say “Y’know, compared to the new show, maybe Rifftrax is just telling the same lame jokes over and over?…”)
Who’s trying making it “divisive”?…YOUster. Because you want “martyr” attention for thinking that the show is pleasantly underwhelming, think any site praise of anything it does right is another mindless cult Final Sacrifice of fan idolatry, and want to be the lone voice in the Wilderness. Which is hard to do when the Wilderness is rapidly being developed for a housing complex and shopping mall.
“Can’t we all just get along?” We can, if you could just shut up for two minutes trying to make it look like we’re not.
“J2&tB”? And people are complaining about “Jn&tB”?
Sampo and Erhardt are great guys, nothing but respect, I just hope no one thought I meant them ill will when I was attacking the trollkins. :D
Actually, no. Mr. Kelley has been quite reasoned in his comments and replies methinks. And despite those that do not like it, he calmly stated his opinions regarding MST3K: Phase 2 and isn’t being shouted down. Once again, speaking of lone voices in the wilderness, you steer into some kind of Mike/Rifftrax bashing which I know you can’t help and love to sneak in at any moment.
Great, we get it, Mr. Original EricJ. You don’t like about half of the episodes of the show that you’re a fan of. Understood. You feel that Rifftrax just indulges in pandering and repeat jokes to get an easy reaction. Wonderful. I’m just glad that during the Joel era, they only said “Hi-Keeba!” or “I’m huge” only once. Imagine if that became an easy phrase to get a laugh during that timeframe! Good thing that never happened.
(Oh, speaking of pandering: is there a greater pandering than having someone dress up and have their hair done exactly like Frank for this new season? Say what you will, even Rifftrax didn’t bother having similar looking puppets called Tim Servo and Krow while getting Mike to run around in a jumpsuit. Good thing there isn’t a Pearl clone too. Oh, wait. At least during the Sci-Fi era they came up with some original characters in Bobo and Brain Guy. The only truly new character in season 11 with no connections to the old show is Jonah, but even then he’s another guy in a Gizmonics jump suit.)
I think this new iteration is underwhelming too, so Mr. Kelley is not alone in his thoughts. There are others here that have said as much as well. I wouldn’t have gone down a political route because that doesn’t enter into it in my opinion. I’m not trying to be divisive, just stating an opinion.
Maybe the reason why this season doesn’t gel for me is that the new writers and performers weren’t trapped in snowbound Minnesota, far away from California, forced to do nothing else but focus on the work, honing their craft. I think this is an easier and more reasonable approach than focusing on generational or political reasons for why the new season might not be their cup of tea.
Season 11 was greenlit, the new cast and new crew were signed up and had to get together to form a working dynamic on the fly and get this product out. The original show’s run had growing pains too, but the nucleus of Joel/Jim/Kevin/Trace was there from KTMA through season one and I’d say by the time season 2 came around, the show was finding the groove that came with having Mike and Frank onboard by then. Will this new group have that kind of time together if there is a Season 12 and/or beyond? Maybe this was the lynchpin that really helped the original ten seasons and it was necessary. Perhaps you need the showrunning and producing focus of a Jim Mallon to keep everything on target.
I mean look at this new live tour too. I thought Joel originally said that this was supposed to get the cast comfy with performing with each other. But half the cast isn’t even making the rounds. Joel already knew the new Mads weren’t going and then new Servo is out too. For what it is worth, this does not increase my confidence in cast chemistry, if that was a goal of this tour.
I don’t begrudge anyone who absolutely loves this new season, who absolutely hates this new season, who absolutely thinks the new season is meh. I think as a fan you can criticize or praise for all the good it does.
I was surprised at how controversial the first Wizards movie was here. All the other discussions I’ve seen so far seem to elevate it to all-time-classic status, which I think is appropriate.
This episode is good too. The riffing is consistent, and there are plenty of moments where I’m just laughing at how horrible the movie is, which I love. This one keeps hurting days after viewing. That Popeye arm… Wow.
Anyone with a decent Robin Williams-level imitation of Jack Mercer’s B/W Fleischer Popeye could have had his pick of riffs here. (“That’s all I can stands, ‘cuz I can’t stands no more!”)
Well, that’s what we’re trying to TELL him: There doesn’t seem to be any “divisiveness” among the fans regarding S11, except in Mike’s rather expanding head. He’s “alone” in possessing the majority opinion, that the show is nice, not great, not what it could be, but at least not what it shouldn’t. He mentions “logic”, while repeatedly defying the powers of everyone else’s to reach him.
I also think S11 has its good moments and its off moments, that new comics don’t have as many of the Old ref material, and there’s a lot the show lost from not coming from a local station of frustrated Minnesota comics anymore, but a few moments (mostly the host-segs) have made me laugh.
I’m not grudging Mike his opinion, I’m just advising him against marketing the franchise rights to his new “trademark”.
And, my dear Cornjob, I bow before your metaphorical prowess.
Bless your soul, my fellow Cornjob. You have a way with words. Let’s hope people are listening.
I hope your chronic pain subsides soon; I, for one, would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. That’s what the thread is for after all, although one could be forgiven for not knowing that after reading the last few days worth of comments. Poor Sampo, indeed…
Peace, my friend. Thanks for being a positive voice of reason in this community.
Season 11 is more like Neapolitan, while as Joel/Mike are the classic Chocolate/Vanilla (or vice versa). That makes RiffTrax some kind of praline, and CT like a mint chocolate chip. YMMV
Thanks for the support everyone.
I thought this was a solid if not exceptional episode, but it has one of my favorite lines of the whole show. When Jonah recommends watching the first Matrix movie three times instead of watching the sequels. Great joke and astute observation.
As for the movie I was greatly relieved to discover that this was a sequel in name only after how irritating I found the first boy wizard to be on the first watch.
I’ve been a fan of David Carradine since watching Kung Fu as a kid. I saw his performance here as a combination or Devil-may-care, I’ve got everything under control, and a knowing wink to the audience that this was a silly film. He was good in The Long Riders, Kill Bill (apologies to Bill Corbet), Death Race 2000, and Circle of Iron just off the top of my head. The circumstances of his death were, well, somewhat embarrassing. But we all have moments where were we to drop dead just then it would be embarrassing, so I try not be judgemental about things like that. And it sounds like he died happy. Rest in Peace. You too Lana.
I’m a big fan of Sid Haig too. Aside from his Rob Zombie work check him out in Galaxy of Terror and the completely insane Spider Baby.
There were a number of pretty ladies in this movie, but the Dark One’s dancer wife caught my eye in particular. Didn’t catch her name or the actress’ name. Any help?
Oh, I thought the annoying kid in Tremors was played by Kevin Bacon.
That would be Susan Lee Hoffman. :)
He was indeed a pretty annoying precocious child wizard, but the kid in the second one is just… sleazy somehow. Really offputting.
That reminds me of the two letters I sent MST3K back in the day. I was of the mind set that they never saw the letters, that some corporate conglomeration handled that stuff. Boy, was I wrong! Anyway, my first letter was the classic “Hello, I would like to join the fan club, thank you” variety. But my second letter just simply stated, on a scrawled piece of scrap paper, “Do Spider Baby!” And I still wish they would :)
Usually I like terrible z-grade fantasy films but this was nigh unwatchable. The kid playing the wizard in the first movie was Olivier compared to Tyre. When he remembers to act, he’s usually doing something that would be slimy and shudder-inducing coming from an adult actor. (Tyre’s gonna grow up to be Mitchell without the Joe Don Baker charm is what I’m saying.)
The kid in the second one is how I imagine a real person of that age (and apparent mental capacity) would behave were he somehow placed in similar situations.
I guess what I’m saying is that his character rings true to me, whereas the wizard kid from the first movie does not.
Ergo, Wizards II must be the better movie.
I agree with this. I think that filmmakers, at a certain poverty level, felt a sense of helplessness/futility that translated into listless, mirthless “comedy” as is on display in Wizards II. But see, I think that’s more a product of culture than raw numbers. Look at what the Italians did with budgets comparable to Wizards II – the movies might not have been wonderful, but so many Italian fantasy/horror/action movies of the 1980s demonstrate a degree of creativity and imagination that shames Wizards II and its ilk.
Possibly the most horrifying comment I’ve ever read on this site.
I was not the biggest fan of either of these ones. That said, the first one had the insanely clever and well-written “Magic inside of you” song/sketch…. this one didn’t. Oh gods this was a drag. Maybe next time break up the pain so it feels different.
I have mixed feelings on this one. We have the unlikable kid hero, the non-funny comic relief wizard, a seriously cute heroine with a disturbing real life story and a smarmy Carradine. But it did have a live, giant plush toy for no reason other than to provide a relatable character and it is the one where I am in the credits as a backer. So, not my favorite but not the worst.
BTW, saw the live show last night in DC and was very impressed with Jonah. He was a good choice for host. The wife and I agreed we liked the CT shows better but we definitely had an awesome time! And the video interaction with Kinga and Max was done better than I anticipated.
This movie. I think it REALLY says something about this movie when I’m only like 30 or so minutes into it and the guy who played Digger Smolkein from “The Undead” is the ONLY actor who’s actually trying to act.
On the other hand, I kinda find it funny how David Carradine is determined not to try for any kind of “medieval/fantasy world” accent. Nope, American accent is good enough for every other film and tv show he’s done, it’s good enough for this film.
The rain in space was cute in its original appearance in Teenage Caveman but this fell flat to repeat it. Maybe callbacks don’t always work as well in host segments. Or maybe the problem is that this doesn’t appear to be a callback at all but rather this episode feels like it is trying to pass it off as an original thought.
I also found this to be one of the weaker Invention Exchanges of the season. The GIF notes is good for a quick grin, but that’s it. Punt Bunnies: again it’s cute but I bet if I actually brought one to work (where I sure need the stress relief) I’d end up in HR. Again.
Maybe it doesn’t make sense for the Mads to join in on the Renaissance Inn and Grille video. But they did it so well I’ll give them a pass. Over all this was kind of pedestrian though.
I thought the You Might Be a Redneck bit was mildly amusing at the time. This host segment tells me they didn’t age all that well.
I’m not sure what to make of Kinga complaining of not winning her time slot as if this wasn’t Netflix. Does somebody on staff wish this was on traditional ad based TV? And even after Max explains it to her she still hatches up the get married to get ratings scheme. I guess this is just a show and I should really just relax.
Why is Pearl Forrester made up to look like Cynthia? Should that be the other way around since Cynthia is the clone?
The Pearl and company’s second appearance was once again a nice piece of familiarity. I especially like the indignation used by Bill. While they all still know there characters he really still has it.
In closing, instead of this movie, as I mentioned last week, I would have rather seen the sequel where Simon turns into a despot dictator.
Favorite Riffs
Caedom explodes a straw stack. Tom in reference to Tyor. “A young Pete Rose is not impressed.”
Crow upon seeing David Carradine “Somebody had a house payment.”
Jonah on the cowhide: “That cow must have hit the wall at 100 MPH.”
Amathea screams like Tia Carrere. All sing “And the girl in the back says everyone attack and it turns into a ballroom blitz.”
Jonah “You know this is similar to a plot in Mad Max Fury Road. So in a way this movie this movie was nominated for best picture.”
Crow as the Dark One during a fight scene. “Ah you guys will speed this up post so it looks like we are really fighting right?”
This movie SHOULD be, like, the worst thing in existence, since it’s a lazily produced pastiche of other (slightly less lazily produced) cheap movies that uses winky smarminess and semi-self awareness to try to cover for its impoverished production value. AND YET, despite all that, it’s one of those movies that’s difficult to look away from, kind of like Hellgate. What really does it for me is the kid playing Tyor. Wow. Just so bad.