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Sampo & Erhardt

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Visit our archives of the MST3K pages previously hosted by the Sci-Fi Channel's SCIFI.COM.

Goodbye Sci-Fi

Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett reflect on MST3K's final broadcast.

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Season 12 Reviews

We’ll add more as we get them:

Gavin Jasper at Den of Geek has one.

So does Liz Shannon Miller of IndieWire.

And Page Branson has one at Do You Even Comic Book.

Thanks to Tim for assistance.

85 Replies to “Season 12 Reviews”

  1. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnny Drama:
    Cynical real-world negativity about foreign countries.
    That’s an aspect of the Sci-Fi era I never understood. Why attack other countries, even as a joke?

    Well, see, that’s the whole “Shock-comic” mentality, as in the “There, we attacked the US too…We’re equal-opportunity offenders!” joke in the Mexican Santa Claus.
    They knew that UK and Canada were watching the show, so pump up the UK and Canada-bashing jokes in “Deadly Bees”, and “Final Sacrifice”. To comics, who get a little too wrapped up in the “First Amendment freedoms” of their own material, this is called “Challenging your audience”. The rest of us average folk might call it “Trolling”, and think that it’s what high-schoolers do on the Internet…But then, that’s why we’re all contented clueless Philistines preserving the repressive PC status-quo, and need our First Amendment shock-button “challenged” from time to time. Apparently.
    So did Italy, but since Italy wasn’t WATCHING the SciFi Channel, there was no real point about doing pornstars-running-for-office Italy jokes in “Devil Fish”, so everyone in the movie was now suddenly “European”. Well, same continent, close enough…If UK or France complains, at least they hit the general ballpark.

    Mike “ex-genius” Kelley:
    And now *I’ll* leave for good (look, all I *ever* did was say I didn’t like the reboot. I didn’t harp on it — one comment per each show for last year because I paid for it and we were doing that here — and ONE comment here that I then had to defend myself.Is that a troll?Then all you “THIS IS THE BEST SEASON EVER!!!” are trolls as well.Even worse, because you attack anyone who doesn’t agree with you (again, unlike me).
    But go ahead, have your lovefest.I promise I won’t be back (really — I have no need of this asskissing group who seemingly have no particular standards other than “if it’s MST3K, it’s GOOD!”).

    Mike, this is going to sound harsh coming from me, but yes: Going by the above definition, you HAVE been “trolling”. For two years now.

    Me, I post opinions, good and bad, and like astronauts, I look for the good and beautiful on the show where I can find it–If, IMO, it mostly happens to be in the CC era, Titanic, and isolated bits of the Jonah era, then say “La Gwerry”.
    When does it become “Trolling”? When it becomes a vaudeville act, and the poster tries to market it as his own wacky, instantly identifiable name-franchise, until that itself becomes the only reason for posting.
    And that, friend, is what YOU’VE been doing. You’ve had good opinions, and on other subjects, you’ve had the good adult way of expressing them that us Seniority fans have, but you just couldn’t stay away from that “Iconoclastic Martyr” candy once you felt the board was “clueless groupthink” and being “mean” to you by saying that they liked the Jonah series.

    Liking Jonah does not mean “Coooool!….More stuuuufff!“, as the RT or SciFi-only fan might say. It means you found yourself laughing at the “psychedelic” George Harrison song from Lords of the Deep, but shrugged off Space Mutiny. If you didn’t, fine–Me, I don’t like okra, either. That doesn’t mean I was a “Judas” who “Betrayed” you by hating Rifftrax but liking Netflix. In fact, if we’re using Biblical metaphors, there’s a name term for the “One guy whom everyone else believes is bringing everything down”–I’m not even going to tell you what that name is. ;)
    If you want to take your ball and go home, assuming that the board will instantly collapse without you, well, butts & doors. Some of us other senior folk know that a lot more happens through talking than sulking.

       1 likes

  2. The KTMA Riff of Castle of Fu Manchu
    Ignored
    says:

    Watching EricJ lecture someone about being a troll would be stranger to me if there weren’t already daily shootings and unprecedented climate disasters. As such, it’s just another sign that the apocalypse is nigh.

    Mike, I don’t think you’re a troll at all. But I do think you’re a little too closed off to the reboot. For instance, you can’t just watch one episode and call it the worst season ever until you’ve seen the season, right? (That said, I for one am thrilled that I have yet to see any gratuitous Neil Patrick Harris cameos…)

    But yeah… there are always going to be people on this and pretty much every board who try to silence or shame the basic free speech of having critical opinions about something you love. You just have to ignore them and say what you feel. We MSTies need to stick together!

       13 likes

  3. mando3b
    Ignored
    says:

    Guys, this has gotten somewhere beyond depressing . . .

       3 likes

  4. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ:

    Mike, this is going to sound harsh coming from me, but yes:Going by the above definition, you HAVE been “trolling”.For two years now.

    When does it become “Trolling”?When it becomes a vaudeville act, and the poster tries to market it as his own wacky, instantly identifiable name-franchise, until that itself becomes the only reason for posting.
    And that, friend, is what YOU’VE been doing.

    This is so self-referential and ridiculous that I can’t even begin.

    Oh, and don’t think for one moment that your amount of time spent here makes you a “senior” member, when you act so juvenile.

    Improve your account.

    Gare

       18 likes

  5. dudehitscar
    Ignored
    says:

    Before Mike wasn’t a troll but he was condescending and trying to interject subtle slams on ‘millennials’ while playing up the ‘victimized conservative’ angle for anyone who dares push back on his opinions.

    Watching one episode and then declaring season 12 the WORST.SEASON.EVER! is straight trolling.. He knew the reaction he was going to get and wrote what he did to get it.

    Where he messed up is when someone mentioned him liking Joel era the best and then he came down hard on the guy in his usual arrogant insulting condescending way ‘I LIKE MIKE BETTER! CAN’T YOU READ! WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU THINK I LIKE JOEL BETTER!’

    He is leaving now because I reposted his exact words saying that he likes Joel better than mike from last year (there is more of his comments that say the same too). Now that he was caught being an asshole over a lie he is not having as much fun trolling and will be leaving the site (all while again not so subtly hinting at the ‘victim conservative’ angle… basically saying we are all intolerant liberals who can’t handle free speech rights..)

    Good riddance to that guy.

    and BTW.. The ignore function DOES NOT WORK so please stop suggesting using it. I can still see comments by everyone on my ignore list.

       11 likes

  6. dudehitscar
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: Think what you’re trying to hit at here is exactly what X-Genius tried to soften his blows with:The good people who made the new series are “less mean”and aren’t “profiting off the misery of others”, because they hired comics who LIKE to watch movies, and be goofy in the audience.For good or bad, they’re going into the movies game, and are just there to crack hip jokes.
    Before (hand-sway) “the Gauntlet”, the new comics hadn’t quite gelled on the idea that these movies were trying to crack their sanity, so they’re just getting started on the
    “No more rock-climbing!” humor, but at least they’re not smugly sniggering their way through it and grousing about why the end credits haven’t happened yet.

    The SciFi and RT eras both had unfocused rage-issues at the idea of watching movies in general–either the time wasted that you’ll never get back!, or the idea that they’re all made by cheap Roger Cormans and overpaid Shia LaBeoufs–and that appealed to a lot of young viewers at the age when they wanted to rage back at a lot of things in their lives, bad movies and pop culture included, and wanted their own Messiah of Anger to lead them…Feel free to insert any personal autobiographical histories here.(Remember when the joy of being a SciFi-era Mike fan was tovote up every single S8&9 episode on the IMDb Worst 100, and go out and shout obscure episode-specific catchphrases in the real world, to hold up your little red book of Revolution and reveal the good news to the Gentiles?);)

    JH&B, OTOH, just seem to be kicking back and going with the goofiness, which Hodgson basically said at the beginning was pretty much the original-series vibe he was going for.They tried to shape their pacing during the live tours, but while the RT tours seem to be completely focused on the comics, the new tours and Titanics kept more of the rowdy in-theater audience dynamic.Being a group audience is something most kids learn in a big theater, but probably never experienced in a cineplex.

    …SO:Hopefully that clears up a few of the complaints whenever certain posters go off about “MK&B Hate Movies!”, and you won’t feel that sense of inner doubt and confusion.

    All I was doing was posting Mike Exgenius’s own words… to which he claims he never said.

       5 likes

  7. dudehitscar
    Ignored
    says:

    trennerdios: I know I sound like a broken record, but consider joining the MST3K subreddit, http://www.reddit.com/r/mst3k. It’s very positive overall, while still having good critical discussion, and trolls get downvoted. There’s pretty much no “Joel good, Mike bad!” or vice versa, and the “get off my lawn attitude” is mostly non-existent.

    bonus points for having a block function that works there.

       5 likes

  8. dudehitscar
    Ignored
    says:

    trennerdios: I know I sound like a broken record, but consider joining the MST3K subreddit, http://www.reddit.com/r/mst3k. It’s very positive overall, while still having good critical discussion, and trolls get downvoted. There’s pretty much no “Joel good, Mike bad!” or vice versa, and the “get off my lawn attitude” is mostly non-existent.

    bonus points for having a block function that works there.

    Johnny Drama:
    Cynical real-world negativity about foreign countries.
    That’s an aspect of the Sci-Fi era I never understood. Why attack other countries, even as a joke?

    Well Final Sacrifice did come out of Canada.. just saying

       2 likes

  9. MonkeyPretzel
    Ignored
    says:

    There was a Kevin Murphy nose-whistle version of “Patrick Swayze Christmas” in this year’s RiffTrax Cyber Monday bonus pack. It’s surprisingly beautiful, and I hope it becomes more widely available.

    There, is that something happy and nice to focus on that brings the past and the present together? And that hopefully no one can argue about?

       3 likes

  10. littleaimishboy
    Ignored
    says:

    MonkeyPretzel:
    There was a Kevin Murphy nose-whistle version of “Patrick Swayze Christmas” in this year’s RiffTrax Cyber Monday bonus pack. It’s surprisingly beautiful, and I hope it becomes more widely available.
    There, is that something happy and nice to focus on that brings the past and the present together? And that hopefully no one can argue about?

    My uncle was KILLED by a nose-whistle, you insensitive [censored]!!!!!

       6 likes

  11. michaelkz
    Ignored
    says:

    The worst thing about Atlantic Rim was the reliance solely on the CGI. There was no creativity to any of the live-action scenes, not even a cheap mock-up of the legs of the robot suits.

       0 likes

  12. Speedy B.
    Ignored
    says:

    My favorite of the season was “Ator”. Made me laugh the most.

    “Mac and Me” had a lot of solid riffs but the movie itself is so hard to watch whenever Mac and his family are on-screen- those aliens are INCREDIBLY ugly. What were they thinking?

    “Atlantic Rim” was a mixed bag. On the plus side, it was such a goofy mockbuster and had some recognizable cast (Graham Greene from Die Hard: With a Vengeance and The Red Green Show; David Chokachi from Baywatch). Side Note: I gotta say, Chokachi has aged REALLY well- you wouldn’t guess he was in his late ’40s when he filmed that movie. And giant monster movies are the bread & butter of MST3K, so it felt authentic to the series even though it was really new. On the other hand, it had a LOT of dialogue, which you could tell made it difficult to squeeze in riffs at times.

    I nearly fell asleep during “Lords of the Deep”. I’ll probably give it another chance at some point.

    “The Day Time Ended” was incomprehensible. The riffs only helped so much. The musical number was a lot of fun, though.

    “Killer Fish” was probably my second favorite of the season. Though I must admit that I was drawing some parallels between it and “Devil Fish”.

       1 likes

  13. mando3b
    Ignored
    says:

    Just got through Lords of the Deep. Good riffing, for the most part, but OMG I have never seen a movie as . . . inert as this. Even Starfighters has more verve to it. It is like they used as the script the sketchy outline on the napkin that they scribbled when they first talked about what to do over corned beef at the deli. I’ve never seen characters who were devoid of any personality at all and yet so unlikable at the same time. They weren’t people, but processed humanoid loaves. There’s a plot, but it just hovers in the air without moving, like a vaguely annoying odor. Yet again, I say: the movies on the reboot seem far worse than the ones they riffed on classic MST.

       2 likes

  14. bartcow
    Ignored
    says:

    mando3b:
    Just got through Lords of the Deep. Good riffing, for the most part, but OMG I have never seen a movie as . . . inert as this. Even Starfighters has more verve to it. It is like they used as the script the sketchy outline on the napkin that they scribbled when they first talked about what to do over corned beef at the deli. I’ve never seen characters who were devoid of any personality at all and yet so unlikable at the same time. They weren’t people, but processed humanoid loaves. There’s a plot, but it just hovers in the air without moving, like a vaguely annoying odor. Yet again, I say: the movies on the reboot seem far worse than the ones they riffed on classic MST.

    It’s like they were aiming for “The Abyss Meets Aliens”, but ended up with “Starfighters, But Underwater”.

       5 likes

  15. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    mando3b:
    Yet again, I say: the movies on the reboot seem far worse than the ones they riffed on classic MST.

    We’ve GOT to get the Reboot off of its neuroses about “Color widescreen recent movies” and “Binge-ready season arcs”, if it’ll get some riffable vintage movies and shorts back on the series again–
    Hashtag: #SlapJoel.

    bartcow: It’s like they were aiming for “The Abyss Meets Aliens”, but ended up with “Starfighters, But Underwater”.

    Max and Kinga technically got it wrong: Yes, “Deepstar Six” was a ripoff of “Leviathan”, which were both jumping-the-gun ripoffs of what we THOUGHT James Cameron was taking so long to do before “The Abyss” came out.
    (Ie., he’d just done “Aliens”, so we all thought “Oh, he’s just doing Aliens in another direction, underwater–‘At 10,000 fathoms, no one can hear you gurgle'”)
    That, um….sure wasn’t what The Abyss turned out to be. I still don’t know what exactly the heck we did get in The Abyss, but it sure wasn’t Deepstar Six.

    Until we got the new-age aliens and “mindbending” psychedelia in LotD. Okay, give Corman credit where he’s due, THIS was a ripoff of Whatever the Heck The Abyss Was–Right down to the main plot being about the one edgy crew member who goes stir-crazy and tries to sabotage everything, while we wait in vain to find out what’s the deal with the weird good aliens.

       0 likes

  16. mst3kme
    Ignored
    says:

    Eric J.:

    Slap Joel?

    I thought you loved Joel. ADORED him.

    You have spent so much of your time (and ours) posting and rambling about your hatred and resentment (read: jealousy) of Mike and Bill.

    You praised Joel in your unique, repellent way.

    Now you’ve created a hashtag suggesting physical violence because Joel hasn’t done the reboot exactly to your specifications.

    Get prescriptions for meds.

    Then, perhaps if you’re of sound mind, post on the official MST3K reboot board your suggestions (not demands) for shorts and black and white films for Season 13.

    The Original EricJ: We’ve GOT to get the Reboot off of its neuroses about “Color widescreen recent movies” and “Binge-ready season arcs”, if it’ll get some riffable vintage movies and shorts back on the series again–
    Hashtag:#SlapJoel.

       14 likes

  17. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    mst3kme:

    …posting and rambling about your hatred and resentment (read: jealousy) of Mike and Bill.

    This.

       12 likes

  18. Trumpys Dad
    Ignored
    says:

    IMHO (not that you asked), I think because I came in during Season 2, there is something special about Joel/Trace/Frank/Kevin. I was sad when Joel left, then Frank, then Trace. It wasn’t what I had fallen in love with. That said, it would have been a mistake if Mike/Kev/Bill/MaryJo simply tried to imitate who they replaced. I admit I prefer the Joelish “I love watching this movie but its sooo bad” to the Mikensian “this movie sucks” riffing, but I feel my life would not have been as complete without seeing Mike’s Morrisey. (Yes, I know you’ve cried). I was thrilled with CT and very impressed with Josh (or J. Elvis) but not so much RT – although I found myself laughing out loud to Birdemic on Pluto TV a few weeks ago. I can not like a Joel-era that is popular (I thought Mitchell was a bit mean spirited) and I can love a SciFi one (Warwilf comes to mind). And if you like Rifftrax, I am genuinely happy for you.
    That said, I like coming here because you all have taught me things about riffs I didn’t get – and it increased my enjoyment. And I like hearing what others like and don’t like.
    On to Netflix MST3K, I joined the kickstarter because I love what Joel started and I thought I would enjoy more episodes even though I figured I wouldn’t understand jokes for the target audience, which I assumed would be Katy Perry fans and people who think SNL is still funny. And I was ok with that. And then, I liked S11 although there were adjustments I had to make. I still thought it was great in “Cry Wilderness” that they made a state park riff about…a state park! I was lucky enough to see the live tour last year and I felt they had gotten it, they seemed to be hitting their stride. I was so sad to miss this year’s tour (had tickets, couldn’t make the show that night). I LOVE S12. There, I said it. Please feel happy for me. Now I want more, More, MORE!!! And at least I can tell who is talking this year.
    OK, this is just cheesy internet fluff, but “critics” have MST3K as the top Netflix series. I just wanted to pass along. https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/gallery/all-82-of-netflixs-notable-original-shows-ranked-from-worst-to-best/ss-BBQ4MQT?ocid=spartandhp#image=83

       6 likes

  19. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    mst3kme:
    Eric J.:
    Slap Joel?
    I thought you loved Joel. ADORED him.

    You have spent so much of your time (and ours) posting and rambling about your hatred and resentment (read: jealousy) of Mike and Bill.

    You praised Joel in your unique, repellent way.

    Now you’ve created a hashtag suggesting physical violence because Joel hasn’t done the reboot exactly to your specifications.

    Get prescriptions for meds.

    MST, I’ve been meaning to ask for a while now–W…WHY do you post to this board when you take everyone grimly, righteously at their word and appear to have no sense of Comic Irony known to man?
    I mean, isn’t it sort of a prerequisite of MSTie-ism to be just generally hip and snarky by nature? For the rest of us, I mean.

    Or do those concepts constitute actual human conversation, and get in the way of the important Rifftrax plugs, the better with which to foster our loyalty through sacrifice, tithe and donations?

    (Yeah, yeah, I know: “How DARE you say such things, and break up the happiness of our sacred boards!”)

       1 likes

  20. mst3kme
    Ignored
    says:

    Eric J.:

    I do (and have shown on this board) have a good sense of humor, and I reach out nicely to people here.

    I also participate in WDTs and posted in this very thread a link from the New York Times about the reboot.

    My only “grim” posts are when I decide to deal with you.

    I’m hip and sassy.

    You’re angry, bitter, and petty.

    The Original EricJ: MST, I’ve been meaning to ask for a while now–W…WHY do you post to this board when you take everyone grimly, righteously at their word and appear to have no sense of Comic Irony known to man?
    I mean, isn’t it sort of a prerequisite of MSTie-ism to be just generally hip and snarky by nature?For the rest of us, I mean.

    Or do those concepts constitute actual human conversation, and get in the way of the important Rifftrax plugs, the better with which to foster our loyalty through sacrifice, tithe and donations?

    (Yeah, yeah, I know:“How DARE you say such things, and break up the happiness of our sacred boards!”)

       14 likes

  21. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    mst3kme:

    I’m hip and sassy.

    You’re angry, bitter, and petty.

    Mic drop.

       10 likes

  22. mando3b
    Ignored
    says:

    I promise this is the last time I will say this, for the 1,000,000,000th time: The core problem, in the end, isn’t “Hey, he likes Joel better than Mike, whom I prefer!”, it’s that this opinion is always expressed as: “Mike is a horrible person and he has defiled this precious thing that was MINE and he needs to be punished forever and everything he does is horrible and everything Joel does is wonderful, and if you like Space Mutiny better than Moon Zero Two you are just as morally deficient as he is.” In other words, it’s always an opinion being expressed with a scientific certainty about it’s zero-sum correctness that it cannot possibly have. For the record (sorry for shouting): MIKE IS NOT A BULLY!, any more than Joel is for loudly going “EEEWWW” whenever the feckless Arch Hall, Jr. appears on screen, or for mocking Bela Lugosi during the last host segment of Bride of the Monster (made at a time when BL was a pathetic wreck of a person more deserving of pity than contempt). The whole premise of MST is that some hapless fellow is trapped in space and forced to watch “cheesy movies, the worst I/we can find” (or: “ever made”) and has to mock them to keep his sanity with two goofy robot puppets. Going with the flow and being really angry about being “conked on the noggin and shot into space” are both reasonable reactions to the experience, and both produce very, very funny experiences for the viewer at home. Almost all of the time, the movies get just what they deserve. Because, in the end, it is a television comedy made under deadlines by beings made from the crooked timber of humanity, some of the bits fall flat; we can just ignore these if we so choose, or not even watch that particular ep at all. I do not much like Mike turning into Carol Channing or some other random person, and the make-fun-of-other-countries stuff makes me squirm a bit (although they are never as harsh to England or Canada as they are to their own Wisconsin) but I prefer those shticks to Joel devoting a whole smug, winking host segment to Billy Mumy’s forgettable career just because his name sounds like “mummy”. But if that’s what floats YOUR boat, knock yourself out!
    There. Ah has spoken. Nevermore will I engage in this particular debate.

       19 likes

  23. Yeti of Great Danger
    Ignored
    says:

    Random observation: I wish the moderators of this site would, y’know, MODERATE. Ban trolls. Delete posts that are nothing more than petty squabbles. Start by deleting my post if you need a boost. People are leaving this site in search of friendlier skies and I don’t blame them. Used to be a fun place, isn’t any more. :-(

       9 likes

  24. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    mando3b:
    I promise this is the last time I will say this, for the 1,000,000,000th time: The core problem, in the end, isn’t “Hey, he likes Joel better than Mike, whom I prefer!”, it’s that this opinion is always expressed as: “Mike is a horrible person and he has defiled this precious thing that was MINE and he needs to be punished forever and everything he does is horrible and everything Joel does is wonderful, and if you like Space Mutiny better than Moon Zero Two you are just as morally deficient as he is.” In other words, it’s always an opinion being expressed with a scientific certainty about it’s zero-sum correctness that it cannot possibly have. For the record (sorry for shouting): MIKE IS NOT A BULLY!, any more than Joel is for loudly going “EEEWWW” whenever the feckless Arch Hall, Jr. appears on screen, or for mocking Bela Lugosi during the last host segment of Bride of the Monster (made at a time when BL was a pathetic wreck of a person more deserving of pity than contempt). The whole premise of MST is that some hapless fellow is trapped in space and forced to watch “cheesy movies, the worst I/we can find” (or: “ever made”) and has to mock them to keep his sanity with two goofy robot puppets. Going with the flow and being really angry about being “conked on the noggin and shot into space” are both reasonable reactions to the experience, and both produce very, very funny experiences for the viewer at home. Almost all of the time, the movies get just what they deserve. Because, in the end, it is a television comedy made under deadlines by beings made from the crooked timber of humanity, some of the bits fall flat; we can just ignore these if we so choose, or not even watch that particular ep at all. I do not much like Mike turning into Carol Channing or some other random person, and the make-fun-of-other-countries stuff makes me squirm a bit (although they are never as harsh to England or Canada as they are to their own Wisconsin) but I prefer those shticks to Joel devoting a whole smug, winking host segment to Billy Mumy’s forgettable career just because his name sounds like “mummy”. But if that’s what floats YOUR boat, knock yourself out!

    Okay, on closer read, we were trying to find more mainstream opinions–Sorry. :)

    But there is the equally territorial idea among the other fans not that one person is (continually) expressing negative reviews of one of the hosts, but the perception that he has a TORTURED PSYCHE!! and is BURNING WITH JEALOUSY!! because the MORE POPULAR TALENTED GENIUS HOST REPLACED HIM!! He has committed the crime that he DOES NOT LOVE who we love!! (And frankly, if it weren’t for the “No politics!” rule, right now, I’d be saying who the “Our enemies are jealous and spend their days scheming for payback after being pushed aside by the most popular and successful guy in the world!!” loyalty-argument sounds exactly like…)
    And not the non-binary opinion that other viewers might not find the Guy You Grew Up With as in touch with the perceived spirit of the show as others might, and that the series might, indeed, have Jumped the Shark, as the young kids say, in ways that would make Cousin Oliver blush.
    (What does this have to do with a S12 discussion, you’re ready to ask? Because, IMOO, Jonah does seem to be in touch with the “proper” earlier spirit of the series, whether it comes from the “holy hand” of its executive producer/co-writer or not. And that I consider it funny, or at least Mac & Me and parts of Lords of the Deep were, whether they were a “present” from my “love soulmate” or not. In a word, I like S12 because Jonah Gets It.)

    So why does the discussion always turn personal?–Because Comedy IS personal. More than any other art, it comes from the human nature of the guy telling the joke, and what aspects of life he considers funny. That’s going to open the performer up to a lot more personal judgment by the audience than an actor, singer or tap-dancer is ever going to experience.
    Some comics might find pointing out an absurdity or piping up an embarrassing cult-ref out of nowhere funny, others might have a few issues and want to get off their own rocks about a few overpaid celebrities whether the audience cares or not, or have near-neurotic obsessions with body-shaming every onscreen character with hip superior sniggers.
    But to say that this discussion is not expressed that way–that one is HOLY! and the other is a FALSE GOD!, and one must not question the other, but express one true love forsaking all others and convert the world–has become a two-way street. Yes, Mike probably meant a lot to the folks here when they were in high school, but he’s not the soul of the series, whether he was High Head-Writer God at one point or not, or whether he’s keeping it Healthy and Alive For Us, so we must keep sending in our dollars and boxtops.
    Isn’t it possible–just possible–that some fans might be objecting to the tone of one phase of the series over another, something that comes out of the performer, rather than the material, saying that any problems of the show may be at the root of the tree, and has long since grown out of “fan wars”? Or have some fans not yet grown out of the idea that Our Favorite Show Lights Our Path, and Love Must Be Absolute?

    I’ve said that one host picks on movies, and one host picked on people, because he didn’t seem to know how to pick on movies, which seemed like pretty poor professional qualifications for hosting it. (Oh, and the rare occasions the first host seemed to, while pushing questionable comic envelopes about goofy film scenes, let’s not forget who he had providing the rich wit.) These are opinions, and I express them in the manner the conversation follows.
    Where it follows, I can only say that it takes two to tango, or sometimes twelve to lynch-mob.

    Oh, and for the record, it was Crow who thought “Billy Mummy” sounded goofy-funny, but couldn’t break through Joel and Servo’s cult-encyclopedic discussion of “Fish Heads”. I’ve often considered that segment a metaphor for different fandoms of the series.

       0 likes

  25. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: “…(sob!) So LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!”

    There, there, let it out:For the record, I don’t recall mentioning that in this particular thread, either–apart from one brief reference backing up another poster’s opinions of Kevin’s humor, and then saying how it was Mike’s staged persona, for whatever reasons he felt that was witty, cutting-edge observational humor–and don’t know what specifically triggered such a diehard screed out of other frequent discussions besides old Stop-Hating-Things-I-Like grudges.
    But, if you feel “persecuted” enough to cry out that all whom others consider talented have feet of clay as well, so there, that proves it, then we deal with the harsh world as best we can.

    Here–Have a glass of water, a cookie, and a Life Saver. :)

    You mentioned to me a week or so ago that everyone is entitled to their opinion here, and that was something that I told you I agreed with.

    However, the above shows no opinion whatsoever – it is simply a classic example of your continuous, reckless, disruptive behavior here.

    This isn’t about getting to state your opinion; this is entirely about you becoming more and more abusive. So when the vast majority of the other users here (read: all) tell you that you’re ruining this experience for them, and you continue to do so, then you are wantonly seeking to destroy the thing you espouse to love.

    You’re in the singular minority here, Eric. Your damaging the community with your boorish, crass posts. And there’s no denying this anymore: you know it’s true.

    I’ve said this before: I really believe that you’re redeemable.

    If you continue to prove me wrong, then you’re are admitting that you are only seeking to drive a wedge into this community and ruin a once-enjoyable site.

    Improve your account.

    Gare

       11 likes

  26. littleaimishboy
    Ignored
    says:

    So, just those three reviews of Season 12? Granted it’s a six-episode “season”, and it’s on Netflix, but for a show with MST3K’s pretty intense – and probably largely likely to engage with blog/vlog/podcast type media – following, that’s pretty lame.

       2 likes

  27. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    Another review from the Bleeding Cool crew.

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/11/30/mst3k-gauntlet-netflix-review/

    Gare

       1 likes

  28. Monsoon Harvard
    Ignored
    says:

    I have yet to watch any of the new mst3k mainly because I don’t have time. But I also have been avoiding it because I can’t stand that little prick who they got to play the part of TV’s Frank. If there is a way to avoid seeing him, I’ll watch the new show someday. Meanwhile I’ll stick with watching Rifftrax, as well as repeated watching of The Film Crew, Cinematic Titanic, and the old mst3k.

       4 likes

  29. Yeti of Great Danger
    Ignored
    says:

    Another random observation: someone appears to be off his meds. SMH

       2 likes

  30. JayMonstr
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s a YouTube channel I follow that has a short review of The Gauntlet:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_2ngKD_l6Y

    I agree with their thoughts on “The Day Time Ended” and “Atlantic Rim.”

    Spoilers Ahead!

    Towards the end, one of them talks about how the finale leads into a 2+ hour “double feature” episode. I’m not sure if that’s believable since it’s most likely a tease for the next live show. I do hope they do “Frankenstein Meets The Space Monster” next season, though.

       0 likes

  31. mando3b
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: Okay, on closer read, we were trying to find more mainstream opinions–Sorry. :)

    I actually greatly appreciate you scrapping your original post and apologizing for it.
    Your reworked response is worlds better, but I think you’re still missing my point: “These are opinions” is a fine sentiment, but you don’t always express them as opinions, but as a matter of verifiable fact. I’ve watched most of the episodes you’ve watched, and I honestly don’t get where “Mike doesn’t know how to pick on movies, so he picks on people” comes from. He’s just picking on the movies differently from the way Joel did. He also generally, IMHO, has far worse movies to pick on than Joel did. (As I said before, all the movies get what they deserve in the end: they are bad, after all, even if in different ways and at different levels of badness.) To me, he’s funnier than Joel and easier to watch as a performer. And I really like his relationship to the ‘bots better: clueless big brother to bratty little brothers. That being said, good Joel is just as good as Good Mike: my preference for eps is not contingent on who’s in the cast. In any event, these are MY opinions. They are no “better” or “worse” than yours. THAT RIGHT THERE is my point.

       12 likes

  32. disqus_eZAEfHymmj
    Ignored
    says:

    First time poster here: I genuinely enjoyed Season 12 overall. It felt like Jonah was more settled into the role and showed a growing confidence, and the host segments were by and large better than 11. The pacing was a *little* better, although it still seems like they aren’t letting the riffs breathe enough, especially in dialogue-free scenes, where they keep piling on joke after joke. I caught the live tour, the night I went they were doing The Brain. Everything was clicking for that: the pacing, the riffs, the delivery. If they had done The Brain as a studio episode with those jokes (and with Joel as guest riffer), it would be a top 10 episode for me. I’m hoping we get a season 13, and they continue to tweak the pacing a bit (I will always prefer one solid joke and ten seconds silence over four mediocre jokes), but I liked a lot of what I saw here. The movies on their own are fascinating. All six episodes are all good-to-great additions to the show’s legacy, and for the life of me I will never understand why Ollie wouldn’t have been like “you know, I’m fine with staying on the boat.”

       3 likes

  33. Herandar
    Ignored
    says:

    Good Day All, My name is Herandar, and I used to be a Satellite News addict. But thanks to an revolutionary 1-step program, today is the first time in nearly three years that I had to read an oppressive, boorish EricJ post. That 1 step? Stop visiting.

    Okay, in all seriousness, I visited this page daily for years, and read every post. I even commented on occasion, as on train wrecks like this thread: http://www.mst3kinfo.com/?p=21554&cpage=9#comments

    After the forum updated, I stopped coming here because of the negativity. Checking back in today just to see what the consensus opinion is on the new season, and the forum posts are essentially unchanged from early 2016. It’s clear that it was the correct decision for me.

       3 likes

  34. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    disqus_eZAEfHymmj:
    First time poster here: I genuinely enjoyed Season 12 overall. It felt like Jonah was more settled into the role and showed a growing confidence, and the host segments were by and large better than 11. The pacing was a *little* better, although it still seems like they aren’t letting the riffs breathe enough, especially in dialogue-free scenes, where they keep piling on joke after joke. I caught the live tour, the night I went they were doing The Brain. Everything was clicking for that: the pacing, the riffs, the delivery. If they had done The Brain as a studio episode with those jokes (and with Joel as guest riffer), it would be a top 10 episode for me. I’m hoping we get a season 13, and they continue to tweak the pacing a bit (I will always prefer one solid joke and ten seconds silence over four mediocre jokes), but I liked a lot of what I saw here. The movies on their own are fascinating. All six episodes are all good-to-great additions to the show’s legacy, and for the life of me I will never understand why Ollie wouldn’t have been like “you know, I’m fine with staying on the boat.”

    Welcome, new-person! We hope to hear more from you.

    Gare

       4 likes

  35. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    Herandar:
    Good Day All, My name is Herandar, and I used to be a Satellite News addict.But thanks to an revolutionary 1-step program, today is the first time in nearly three years that I had to read an oppressive, boorish EricJ post.That 1 step?Stop visiting.

    Okay, in all seriousness, I visited this page daily for years, and read every post.I even commented on occasion, as on train wrecks like this thread: http://www.mst3kinfo.com/?p=21554&cpage=9#comments

    After the forum updated, I stopped coming here because of the negativity.Checking back in today just to see what the consensus opinion is on the new season, and the forum posts are essentially unchanged from early 2016.It’s clear that it was the correct decision for me.

    Hello, again.

    There are lots of great conversations and information here to be shared. Please don’t let one person drive you away.

    Gare

       2 likes

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