As some of you might have guessed, we won’t be making new seasons of the show for Netflix. However, I want you to know that we’ve had a wonderful time working with the Netflix team, and will always be grateful to them. After all, they gave us the opportunity to spend the past few years aboard the Satellite of Love, and made it possible for new generations to discover the joys of riffing cheesy movies with your friends.
I couldn’t be more grateful or proud to our incredible cast and our wonderful crew for bringing this incarnation of the show to life, and hope that we’ll get the chance to continue collaborating on MST3K as we enter our next chapter.
And, I’m pleased to confirm that The Return and The Gauntlet – along with a healthy selection of classic episodes – will continue to stream on Netflix, bringing some of the show’s best episodes to cheesy movie lovers around the world.
Now, I know you might have questions about the future of Mystery Science Theater, but as you’ve seen over the last four years, we are just as dedicated to keeping MST3K alive as ever. And I want to remind you that there are still lots of options for us to explore in the years to come. This isn’t our first rodeo! So, while this might be the end of the first chapter of bringing back MST3K, don’t worry: it’s not the last chapter.
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Joel Announces the End of the Netflix EraIn an email to Kickstarter backers, Joel announced:
101 Replies to “Joel Announces the End of the Netflix Era”Commenting at Satellite News
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There are those who have been persecuted for looking at RT and saying, like Fred Gwynne, that “Sometimes dead is better.”
(Ie., better than sounding like it came back from an evil Pet Sematary.)
Recently Mad Magazine announced it was finally folding after sixty (or maybe just forty) years as a cultural institution, and those who look at the current incarnation–which devotes most of its material to Cracked.com-style Internet humor, and apart from the Warner-plugging movie/TV parodies, was now only funny once a year for their “Ten Dumbest Things” issue–were sadly forced to rend garments and agree.
But Joel-era MST3K will still live on on DVD, and Mad Magazine will still live on the 50th-anniversary DVD-ROM someone gave me a couple years ago.
Are these from the reboot? I don’t even remember them.
Anyway, I knew the reboot was in trouble when it didn’t bring in any new fans to the online forums. For the most part, the only people talking about MST3k on here, Reddit, ForrestCrow, etc. are longtime fans of the show. That’s not a recipe for success, because every reboot splits the fan-base, and every successful reboot NEEDS to replace the fans it loses with fans of the new show. That didn’t happen here.
Compare, for example, MST3k: The Return with the success of the new Dr. Who. The latter was a huge cultural phenomenon among young people (one of the strangest experiences I’ve ever had was overhearing a group of college girls talking about Dr. Who as if it were the hot new thing — mind-boggling to anyone who lived through the 80’s). But how many fans of the “new” MST3k have you met out there? I.e. people who were introduced to the show through the Reboot. Personally, in all the time I’ve spent frequenting online forums, I’ve only encountered one or two. Almost without exception, all the people you see posting on MST3k forums are fans of the original show. That was always a huge warning sign to me, because if the Reboot had been truly successful, then those numbers would have been reversed: We (the longtime fans) would have been outnumbered by new fans to the point that we would probably feel a little curmudgeonly about it (“You young whippersnappers and your newfangled MST3k Reboot. Back in my day…”).
Instead, we have a split fan-base and… nothing. The only people consuming the Reboot, for the most part, are fans of the original show, and they (Shout, Joel) didn’t even manage to capture that whole market.
The Ethan Frome quote was from Season 11, the invention exchange was a literary suppository. Oswalt’s line was such a throwaway I didn’t catch it for the first couple of look
The “Somebody needs my help” is, of course, at 1:46 in.
Most of us on here suspect it strongly, but I think it’d be really scary to actually have to post your age with every comment.
If Joel Hodgson can find another Jim Mallon to keep him under control, there’ll be a succesful new incarnation of MST.
Actually, pretty much everything still lives on in the torrent-verse, including Fernwood 2Night, Best of the West, Cimarron Strip, Space Ghost, much of Ernie Kovacs, It’s a Man’s World, and the original Beavis and Butt-Head eps with the “Fire!” references intact. And, of course, several hundred Rifftrax. Kind of begs the question, STFW? though. I wish Joel Hodgson could have had someone force him to do viable, accessible work. We’ve lost something that would have been worthwhile, certainl. But then, I’m still p.o.’d that Moby Grape broke up.
Suddenly, there’s more negativity around here than a YouTube video about the “Star Wars” Sequel Trilogy. When it comes to MST3K, I’m not about to go down that road.
I like to think that we could be the first fandom that can graciously let go.
WTF Servo has legs now? craaazy
*watching the Turkey Day stuff*
thing is, when it comes to long-running series like MST or Star Wars it’s like trying to make lightning strike twice in the same place. the original MST was a product of its time. it is rather telling the Netflix series floundered while RiffTrax is going strong. in fact, the more RiffTrax I watch the more I prefer it to the new MST seasons (also helps that RiffTrax has a ton of shorts, which are always good for a quick laugh. the new MST has no shorts whatsoever, kinda like the Sci-Fi era)
jeez, I kinda lost my train of thought there. ANYWAY… once Episode 9 comes and goes I’m pretty much done with Star Wars, and I’m only seeing 9 out of what feels like obligation….
If Joel and Trace could just chase Mike and Bill out of Rifftrax and replace them, we’d have what I’d consider the best of both (or, indeed, all three) worlds. That won’t happen of course.
I never really “got” that (which means I’m not one of “the right people” for that, I guess). Kinga has Jonah physically live through the opening credits every single time, which IMHO unduly emphasizes how it’s “just a show,” yet Jonah is said to be reacting far more despondently to his situation than Joel or Mike ever did (night terrors and wondering if he’ll ever see his loved ones again), which IMHO goes against the “it’s just a show” approach. But whatever. :-|
Then again, inasmuch as Jonah is from neither Minnesota NOR Wisconsin, maybe he’s just plain not as stoic as Joel and Mike were…
Just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean you should. ;-)
Forums are pretty much dead across the Internet. It probably doesn’t help that this page removed its link to that forum.
But if you look at the two big MST3K Facebook groups, they each have more than 10,000 members, with dozens of posts daily.
WTF now Gypsy can barf out a smaller Gypsy
this is getting weird…
also true, most people are either on social media (FB, Twitter etc) or Reddit
:/
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Well crap. I did not see this coming. Rifftrax seems to be going strong. Cinematic Titanic was going doing well until some of the members got tired of it. I was under the impression that there was enough demand for riffing style humor to keep it all going and I thought all was well with the new MST. Guess my 48 year year old finger isn’t on the zeitgeist.
I’m disappointed, and I certainly hope Joel brings it back or does something similar. But mostly I’m grateful to have gotten the Season and a half we did. Although the new cast hadn’t had time to gel like the original, and most of the celebrity appearances did little for me, over all I thought the new episodes were for the most part of a similar quality as the show in it’s prime. Some great laughs and great riffs. So thank you to everyone who helped bring it back. Hope to see you again. Happy holidays (if that’s OK with you).
To quote Professor Irwin Corey, “That question breaks down into two parts.”
First, “I was under the impression that there was enough demand for riffing style humor.” The answer is, “Yes.”
Second, “I thought all was well with the new MST.” The answer is, “No. Joel, give me the keys, you’re in no condition to drive.”
In this ever-increasingly cutthroat streaming service battling going on, I cannot believe that MST was ever going to be a lynchpin of Netflix’s platform.
Exclusive content is the name of the game. And the bottom line is that Nu-MST wasn’t exclusive. Old fart fans like me who remember taping the show like crazy on VHS back in the day, who remember Rhino losing both Amazing Colossal Man and Godzilla Vs Megalon from official releases, and who remember recent Shout sets losing various film rights as well, we were donating to get the DVD/blu ray sets.
Was that everyone? Nope. But it probably was enough of a chunk of folks that didn’t give a damn about subscribing to Netflix solely because they were going to get Nu-MST sets on physical media. I know I didn’t subscribe because of that. I donated to the campaigns and my physical rewards partly consisted of those sets. It definitely didn’t lead to a Netflix subscription for me because I was going to have the series on my shelf with a one-time purchase price instead of a never-ending subscription fee.
Netflix certainly won’t release numbers, but I cannot believe that there’s anything more than the usual healthy cult love of this show. That was combined with a chunk of fans who simply didn’t cross over to embrace Nu-MST. Yes I’ve seen enough in these threads here and over in the wilds of social media over the years to know than there’s more than just a “very vocal minority” who don’t like it. Chances are they just didn’t feel like diving into the flames all the time to express their displeasure. I know it couldn’t have just been me that approached it that way. At the end of the day, it doesn’t change fan minds as people can certainly love whatever media they love. Nu-MST had their work cut out for them to succeed on Netflix.
And MST is already available on other platforms. Netflix didn’t and doesn’t have exclusive streaming rights to the show what with the older episodes of the series being shown across Pluto or Twitch or YouTube or Shout or via Rifftrax. Not that I endorse Disney+, but they certainly know how to print money and by yanking properties off of Netflix and elsewhere and making Disney the exclusive place to get their catalog (Disney/NatGeo/Marvel/Star Wars/and probably the 20th Century Fox stuff soon…) for streaming ensures the revenue. Meanwhile MST is spread out everywhere at cheaper prices or even for free.
And the writing was truly on the wall for Nu-MST with the 6 episode season that compromised in an effort to appeal to a Netflix/binge format that arrived as The Gauntlet. While I’m certain that there are those that love to binge their MST, MST isn’t typical binge fare. I think that a marriage between Netflix and MST just was a mismatch from the start and only incredible amounts of new subscribers coming to Netflix solely because of Nu-MST would have possibly made the coupling work.
And I think a reasoned answer is that those new subscribers didn’t appear and Netflix cut ties.
Also someone mentioned Incognito Cinema Warriors XP earlier and whatever became of them. They are still around! They’ve gone over to predominantly gaming riffing and commentary, but they are still at it! Check out Agonywolf Media and/or Robot Co-Op over on Twitch or at robotco-op.com, plus they still post videos over on YouTube as well.
Cinematic Titanic–the version JT&F made when they weren’t allowed to use the name–basically started off as an almost exact clone of Film Crew, with the sitcom-boss and the underground bunker, back when both factions thought that was the form that new MST3K would take.
They later switched to live-audience riffing, and Rifftrax later ditched cheap Legend Films colorizations of Plan Nine, and the low-hanging Twilight and Avatar jokes, and also put their money into live-concert videos and bizarre ephemera.
In the end, both discovered it was about the audience, which the first couple of seasons pretty much had been all along.
I’m very hopeful for this transition. I would love to see a return to shorts and some terrible black and white movies. Seems to me Shout! would be a perfect marriage for producing new shows.
wow, that’s a pretty good take on the situation. I know MST alone didn’t get me to subscribe to Netflix, I simply bought the entire season 11 on DVD…
also a good reminder that MST isn’t going away, you can find it pretty much everywhere
Yes folks, when you have a very unpopular opinion that you’ve been repeating ad nauseam with vitriol for nearly 30 years, claim you are being “persecuted” when you get some pushback.
Well, are we?
Incidentally, if someone who isn’t me wants to get a project like that rolling, have at it. :-)
While there were certainly systematic problems, both with Netflix and MST3K itself, ones that have been thoroughly discussed here, this site shares some of the blame, imo. You guys barely acknowledged the new seasons until you (seemingly) begrudgingly began to discuss them like any of the other seasons. Not to mention the constantly negative, curmudgeonly atmosphere around here…
That would be fantastic. As I understood it, Netflix only wanted films that were in 16:9, not SD and in full color. If MST finally breaks free of Netflix, hopefully they can do whatever the hell they want.
If memory serves this site was slow to discuss the new episodes due to health issues and/or other offline things to deal with. As for the negative tone, I was a bit surprised by that too. How much this affected the fate of the show, I don’t know.
That was supposed to reference health issues on the part of the site admin. I miss the edit button.
I thought the delay was also to allow everyone who doesn’t subscribe to Netflix to have a chance to watch before starting the discussion.
Ultimately we’re dealing with a different MST3K that we haven’t lived with for awhile. Even the youngest MST3K fans were familiar with the show CC and Sci-Fi era.
The fact that he’s still in here despite numerous requests to ban him (or to at least add an IGNORE function) — not for his opinions but for his overall exceptionally unpleasant demeanor — indicates that, if anything, he’s being coddled…
…Uh, you sure about that “CC” thing?
(Back when Warner took over Rhino, and the new volumes of the DVD Boxsets were Sci-Fi only, it seemed like only the TIP of the “There was another show before Mike and Space Mutiny?” new-generation iceberg.)
kinda like how for Season 8 Sci-Fi demanded they only do sci-fi movies (mostly B&W) and there be a storyline for the host segments
ugh… can’t MST3K get along without all this executive meddling crap?
yet another reason why I’ve come to prefer RiffTrax, they can do whatever the hell they want
I’m not entirely sure we’re talking about the same thing, but, as far as individual eps go, I Accuse My Parents went up on tpb fifteen years ago, and Moon Zero Two went up on dap almost nineteen years ago. acidzebra put up his monster, all-ten-seasons-plus-KTMA-and-specials compilation on tpb over twelve years ago. And those are just the ones that are still up (dap takes down anything that becomes available commercially, uf cawss).
On the one hand, I suspect the number of “youngest” fans isn’t all that big, but on the other, I suspect that the proportion of them who can work a torrent client is about a hundred and six percent.
[OK, I had to check. Rifftrax launched in July of 2006, the first uploads to tpb of Rifftrax titles were in December, 2006. There’s currently almost six hundred Rifftrax uploads listed. Yeah, it’s pervasive.]
Sure. Some friendly billionaire MST3K fan could bankroll the endeavor with the loose change he finds behind his sofa cushions OSLT. MONEY: Everybody Needs It. ;-)
If you had a salary of $100,000 per year (net), it would still take TEN THOUSAND YEARS for you to accumulate even ONE billion dollars. THAT’S how big a number a billion is, and some people have hundreds of them. Oh, It’s True…
OR…
Someone could determine (a) how much money is necessary to finance a continued MST3K and (2) how many dedicated MST3K fans would be willing to get to Kickstarting. Then divide one by the other and determine how much per fan would be needed. Then…GO. :-)
I think participating in another Kickstarter would be like paying the rancher to raise the cow and then pay for the steak taken from that cow. I’m not paying for another iteration of MST3K to get off the ground, not after the crap in the Revival like celebrity guest stars. At least with Rifftrax their Kickstarter are so they can pay for the rights to use movies in their live shows.
I dislike how the news of the end of MST3K’s Netflix era has divided the fanbase here.
Let’s focus on our love of MST3K, not whatever our feelings are about the revival or disagreeing about possible future outlets for the show.
The whole topic is about the end of the revival and it’s hard to not wonder where MST3K can go from here. If people liked what the Netflix era brought then its natural to want more. Unless there’s a stable production in place you can’t even get performers to commit their energy to a new MST3K.
I saw the revival as, the Netflix wasn’t AS bad as that horrendous “Danger Mouse” revival (which wasn’t even theirs, but the BBC’s), or the new Benji movie, but if it was an excuse for Netflix to air the originals and get new kids to watch it for the first time, they might learn something.
Which means we’re still talking about Original MST3K reruns from the 90’s being better. Not that Mac & Me was all that bad, but if you’re a new kid sitting there and telling me you’ve never seen Cave Dwellers in your life, but a friend got you to watch Final Sacrifice…
CONTINUATION:
If YOU had a hundred billions, would you spare one for MST3K? A half of one? One-tenth of one? How Low or high Would You Go? ;-)
In that case I would just start a new TV channel and provide a modest budget for a new MST3K.
Outside of that the only financial commitment we should make are watching ads and buying the show when released on home video.
Yes, but evidently THAT’S not going to happen, so moving past that is called for.
Of course, the the billionaire thing isn’t going to happen, either, so….
“Could,” “should,” you’re not much of an outside-the-box guy, are you? ;-)
Not in this case. We can’t be responsible for fully financing MST3K. If there’s no place for it in this fractured world of entertainment that we have now then we have to accept that.
I liked the reboot but didn’t love it. The new cast was fine, but the segments and overall production lacked the original series’ cheesy charm. If Joel launched another MST3K crowd-funding campaign and persuaded Trace, Frank, Mary Jo and maybe even Josh to participate, yeah, I’ll pledge. No brainer.
After reading all these comments and thinking about them and the whole situation for several days now, I realize that, just like Johnny in Time of the Apes, I don’t care. I really don’t care if there is another new MST. I can’t help but feel that all the blood, sweat and tears that went into the Netflix reboot wound up producing a bunch of meh episodes that are but a pale imitation of the classic CC/Sci Fi ones. Another Kickstarter campaign, plus another long search for just the right platform, plus all the Sturm und Drang over finding a new cast, new writers, etc., etc.–wouldn’t that just be laboring mightily just to bring forth another mouse or two? And then start the process all over again when the new platform pulls the plug? It feels like the myth of Sisyphus, rolling the rock up the mountain only to have it roll back down just as you get to the top. Or else Mike and the ‘bots having to go watch Giant Spider Invasion again just because Pearl couldn’t watch them watch it the first time. If Joel could catch lightning in a bottle and find the right people with the right synergy to do it the right way, then that would be great. But it would be depressing to watch another new reboot that was trying hard to emulate, not CC/Sci Fi MST but Netflix MST.
On a separate note, is it just me, or has the “Ator” thread DISAPPEARED? What’s THAT about?
Wait, now it’s back, never mind.
While few of the Return/Gauntlet episodes reached the level of the best Comedy Central/Sci-Fi MST episodes (though “Avalanche” comes awfully close), it still sucks that we’re not getting more on that service. It was still entertaining to watch.
Thank Neptune RiffTrax is still going strong, at least.
I wonder if a smaller budget was an option for Joel to be able to keep MST3K on Netflix. With progress made during the live tour after the revival and the Gauntlet, I think another season would have been even better.
HIS ARMS WORK! He’s voiced from a different guy than the puppeteer!