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Sampo & Erhardt

Sci-Fi Archives


Visit our archives of the MST3K pages previously hosted by the Sci-Fi Channel's SCIFI.COM.

Goodbye Sci-Fi

Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett reflect on MST3K's final broadcast.

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Episode guide: 820- Space Mutiny

Movie: (1988) The leaders of a space colony must fight back when their security chief plans to take over the ship.

First shown: 11/7/97
Opening: Crow and Tom think Mike’s encyclopedias are outdated
Intro: Mike has new encyclopedias; Pearl, Bobo and Observer are in prison
Host segment 1: Mike’s tea time is interrupted by the bots trashing some escape pods
Host segment 2: Crow’s a Bellerian…or is he?; Bobo’s escape plan fails
Host segment 3: Servo installs railings
End: Tom is buff, Crow less so. Meanwhile Pearl, Bobo and Observer escape, and a fire begins!
Stinger: Our hero bravely screams like a girl and bails out
1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (385 votes, average: 4.87 out of 5)

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• First of all, has everybody signed Sherri’s birthday card?
• For several episodes now, the show had been going very strong, but many fans point to this show as probably the zenith of season eight, where everything worked and they were firing on all cylinders. It’s good, okay, at least in terms of the riffing. Still, a geeky scandal plagues this episode and many of the segments are only so-so. I’m not sure the next two eps aren’t just as good.
References.
• The many many names of Dave Ryder just got funnier and funnier—and one, “Big McHugelarge,” later became a bumper sticker BBI sold. Scarcely a week goes by that someone doesn’t tweet that video.
• Paul’s take on this episode is here.
• This episode was included in Rhino’s (and now Shout’s) “The Mystery Science Theater 3000 Collection, Vol. 4.”
• The big scandal about this episode was the “Battlestar Galactica” footage nobody at BBI recognized. I remember at the time that several online fans simply COULD NOT CONCEIVE of the POSSIBILITY that they would not recognize this footage. It seemed simply out of the realm of possibility to them. I said at the time that this lapse pointed up the painful lack of nerds on the Sci-Fi Channel-era writing staff. If Frank or Trace were still on the staff, I don’t think this would have been missed.
• The encyclopedia segment sort of predicts Wikipedia, which would launch a few years later.
• That’s Patrick and intern Dan Breyer as the Roman guards, and that’s Best Brains Controller Tim Johnson, hopelessly typecast as Mike Down, CPA.
• Classical music buffs: What is the piece Mike is listening to in segment 1?
• Movie observation: Reb Brown’s character is supposed to be a military officer, isn’t he? Then why the heck is he walking around in a wife-beater?
• Trivia: The Mitchell family infests this movie. In addition to Cameron Mitchell, his son Chip Mitchell portrayed mustachioed crew member Blake and his daughter Camile Mitchell provided the voice (but not the body) for Jennera.
• The rest of us may not enjoy Cisse Cameron’s portrayal as Lea (and btw I cannot BELIEVE they gave the female lead in a space action movie that name). But Reb Brown apparently liked what he saw. The two are now married and the set of this movie is where they first met.
• Callback from the old days: The line “Guard! Guard! Sick man!” is a bit from “Red Zone Cuba.”
• Of course, another classic moment in this movie is when the character we saw killed in the previous scene is quietly back at her station on the bridge.
• Mike does a very good impression of SCTV’s Ed Grimley at a couple of points.
• Segment 2 is another of those “Crow is not right in the head” segments. I think they work because Bill really commits to the concept.
• Crow is still wearing his Bellerian costume in the theater.
• Mike, channeling protective father figure Joel, covers the bots eyes during some suggestive moments.
• Segment 3 gives Mike a chance to do some nice physical comedy. He nails it.
• Servo thinks the movie is Canadian. Nope, South African.
• Another closing credits conversation.
• The final segment is not the first time the bots have bulked up. They also tried it in episode 410- HERCULES AGAINST THE MOON MEN.
• Cast and crew roundup: special effects guy Jerry Kitz also worked on “Soultaker.” Makeup person Debi Nichol worked on “Outlaw of Gor,” as did production designer/art director Geoff Hill. In front of the camera, John Phillip Law was also in “Danger: Diabolik” and Cameron Mitchell was in “Stranded in Space.”
• CreditsWatch: Produced & directed by Jim. This was intern Todd Severson’s first episode.
• Fave riff: “JUST STOP AND AIM, YOU IDIOTS!” Honorable mention: “She’s presenting like mandrill!”

259 Replies to “Episode guide: 820- Space Mutiny”

  1. Justin Corwin
    Ignored
    says:

    I think the bechdel test posts would be more interesting if every movie didn’t seem to fail it. It’s only interesting if the film PASSES the test because it seems rare.

       1 likes

  2. Thad Boyd
    Ignored
    says:

    Justin Corwin:
    I think the bechdel test posts would be more interesting if every movie didn’t seem to fail it. It’s only interesting if the film PASSES the test because it seems rare.

    But that’s the entire point of the Bechdel Test! It’s a trivially simple test to pass, and yet a truly shocking proportion of movies fails it.

    The punchline of the comic strip that introduced it was “Last movie I was able to see was Alien.”

       3 likes

  3. bartcow
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: (No S8-9 comment here, folks.Still, he’s got a point, it looks Canadian.)

    Yes, some are aware how much….a LOT of fans are “obsessed” with this episode.Not that that’s always a good thing.

    Actually, my point was how obsessed I am with the movie, not necessarily the episode (I now see the “just as much as” was a qualifier I should have written better). But thanks for reading my post about as carefully as I ever bother to read yours. I was originally going to come on here and talk about the plot holes in the movie and some of the things I discovered watching the uncut, unriffed version. But it’s been quite the day so far, and you’ve caught me in a rare mood, and I have no filter left today.

    Anyway, I would never declare this the best episode, because that’s subjective (despite attempts to present “scientific” evidence as to why we should all hate it). However, I will declare it my favorite episode, because it’s the type of movie I would have devoured as a sci-fi obsessed kid in the 80s. It reminds me of Saturday afternoons and sleepovers and playing with my action figures in the yard. It’s silly and confusing and poorly edited, but the spaceships go pew pew pew, and that makes me happy. I put this episode on when I’m alone in the house because it makes me feel safe. I’m familiar enough with the riffs that I can anticipate most of them. And while I don’t laugh as heartily as I used to, it’s the same as knowing all the words to a song. It’s comforting. I put this episode on when I’m feeling down because I know there’s still a line or two that makes me smile. I put this episode on because my 12 year old loves it. She gets most of the references in this one, which is where most of the learning curve with MST lies. I love hearing her laugh EVERY TIME at the “I don’t know if this helps, but Ho Ho Ho” line. She, like me, has learned to enjoy the escape it provides, and it helped expand her interest into the rest of the 200+ episodes of the show (she watched Moon Zero Two without me–a proud papa moment). So yes, it’s NOT a good thing when someone becomes obsessed with this episode, because then they might want to watch more of them, and who needs that?

    So is it a perfect episode? Dear God, no. Do all the jokes land? About as well as any other episode, more or less. If I’ve ever stated otherwise, well, let’s blame it on youthful inexperience. I’ve watched it more than any other episode (mostly by falling asleep to it), so I’m very familiar with all the places it’s not quite up to snuff, all the jokes they missed, all the jokes that should have stayed in the writer’s room, etc etc etc. But I like it. It’s helped me on more than one occasion shake off these existential blues.

    But yes, obviously I’m ignorant, ill-informed, and drank the poisoned water to ever have spent more than 5 minutes with 820 without turning it off in disgust.

    Sorry, I really try not to feed the trolls, but it’s getting to where I’m dreading Thursdays (which used to be the highlight of my week). And today was just not the day to be called, once again, wrong for liking something.

    I’m sure once my mood has improved, I’ll regret writing most of this, but it’s eternal now.

    Please feel free to never quote me again on this board. It’ll likely become a lot easier because I doubt I’ll ever post again.

       20 likes

  4. Speedy B.
    Ignored
    says:

    More importantly, Mike and the bots getting vicious with the movies they’re presented with is actually more true to the original premise: If they’re being held there against their will, of COURSE they’re going to lash out at the bad movies they’re subjected to!

       18 likes

  5. Lisa H.
    Ignored
    says:

    “Big McHugelarge,” later became a bumper sticker

    I think you mean Big McLargehuge.

       2 likes

  6. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    Justin Corwin:
    Maybe it’s because I’m one of those folks who grew up with the Mike episodes and didn’t know about Comedy Central era until I got back into the show. (Like EricJ talks about) but some of these movies make me angry. So angry that I want the the guys on the SOL to share in that anger. Usually it’s an 80s turd fest….And it’s awesome when Mike and the bots hate on it.I feel like Joel and the bots were too nice to Manos too. Hurts the episode.

    But what do you think it’s accomplishing when M&tB “hate on it”? That they went out and bullied someone that bothered them, and you’re feeling the rush of getting to stand next to the cool kid, so you gotta hate what he hates if he’s going to invite you into his private gang of cool troublemakers, just because he got away with pranking the teacher like you wished you could?

    It’s a problem with kids who not only grew up with Sci-Fi only, but also grew up with cineplexes, and thought it was common to hate going to the theater at all–We go to the ‘plexes to see the big Transformers movie, grouse about a lot of idiots with cellphones, and like M&tB, fold our arms at the screen and say “Okay, Michael Bay, you got your twelve bucks, now get your latest psychotic episode freakin’ OVER with!” That’s because anyone who dares make a bad movie is somehow offending us personally, you see, because he rolled us for twelve bucks to treat us like idiots, and we’ll get it back from him sooner or later, just you wait.
    We didn’t have that as much back in CC’s 90’s, when theaters were more fun: I remember being in the Friday-night audience for the 90’s Godzilla and Batman & Robin–And about ten or fifteen minutes in, when we suddenly realized these were not going to be the good movies we thought they were, the response wasn’t “Okay, Movie, here comes the punch in the teeth!”, it was this united feeling that the whole audience of strangers was now comrades-in-arms, and we could either walk out, or some of us could stay and see just how bad it would GET. There was a curiosity to do the latter.

    To use the CC Joel/Manos comparison, the host segs are all about how J&tB start out wanting to sit through the movie to the end, but it’s such disturbing and mind-numbing pain to sit through that the Bots end up in frantic tears, and even Dr. F and Frank are forced to apologize for showing it. J&tB’s problems are our problems, because we were so willing to give this week’s episode the benefit of the doubt too, but halfway in, dear gods, what were we WATCHING??
    The CC era asked us to share their moviegoing experience by inviting us to stare and “WTF?” along, the narcissistic Sci-Fi era naturally assumed that we’ll know it’s bad because the hosts say it’s bad, so c’mon, guys, bring your bats and let’s go wilding!

    Like “nice” Jonah, I’d rather be a member of a theater audience that liked to be there but didn’t know what they’d gotten themselves into, than one encouraged to Get Mean, ‘Cause It’s Fun. If liking movies, even when they’re strange, bad and stupid enough to joke about, and showing off my offbeat Smarter-than-you cleverness to do it, makes me “Too nice”, well, you damn well got THAT right. :)

    (And if some people say Mutiny was strange, bad and stupid enough to innocently joke about, rather than Rifftrax’s “Let’s all kick Avatar in the crotch for being popular!”, well that’s a good thing too…I just sorta missed whatever it was in Mutiny I was supposed to laugh at.)

       2 likes

  7. Ro-man, aka one of several possible Steves
    Ignored
    says:

    … sigh …

    Me like this episode because it make me laugh.

       19 likes

  8. Johnny Drama
    Ignored
    says:

    No one should leave this site because a few of us didn’t like an episode, especially one of the most popular of them all. It’d be like leaving the SOL because a movie was bad!
    Stay with us! There’s only a handful of us with this unpopular opinion of Space Mutiny, but there’s hundreds of you! Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean virtually every other MSTie doesn’t!

    And you know what bartcow, I’m happy you have a fuzzy nostalgic reason for loving this episode. That’s how it’s supposed to be. It’s unfortunate that a large amount of people seem to consider Space Mutiny the only episode worth watching. And that can drive a hardcore fan batty who dislikes Space Mutiny. But you don’t love it because it’s popular, you love it because it’s special to you.

    You get the show, sir. And I applaud you for it.

       6 likes

  9. docskippy
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: But what do you think it’s accomplishing when M&tB “hate on it”?

    What do YOU think you’re accomplishing?

       18 likes

  10. Johnny Drama
    Ignored
    says:

    Speedy B.:
    More importantly, Mike and the bots getting vicious with the movies they’re presented with is actually more true to the original premise:If they’re being held there against their will, of COURSE they’re going to lash out at the bad movies they’re subjected to!

    I don’t think that’s the original premise of the show. He’s just keeping his sanity with the help of his robot friends. MST3K is not a roast, but more of a thought association program. Hey that scene reminds me of such and such, I think I’ll make a riff about that. Of course, we all have our varied opinions about that thought.

    I can take some ball busting, New York style humor here and there, and knowing that MST3K is a comedy, I realize they’re just jokes and not meant to be malicious. But it does get to me when they dig a little too deep.

    No one sets out to make a bad movie. Making a movie, any movie, is incredibly difficult, excruciating hard work, especially on a micro-budget. So I honor those filmmakers for going out there and trying to make something they thought was good. I would never slam them for that. Without them, there would be no MST3K.

    For me, MST3K completes these movies. It’s the final layer that makes these movies watchable and enjoyable. Have fun, play with the movies, but don’t be mean to them, we’re better than that. Even if it is easier to be mean instead of being clever.

       2 likes

  11. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnny Drama: I don’t think that’s the original premise of the show. He’s just keeping his sanity with the help of his robot friends. MST3K is not a roast, but more of a thought association program. Hey that scene reminds me of such and such, I think I’ll make a riff about that. Of course, we all have our varied opinions about that thought.

    For me, MST3K completes these movies. It’s the final layer that makes these movies watchable and enjoyable. Have fun, play with the movies, but don’t be mean to them, we’re better than that. Even if it is easier to be mean instead of being clever.

    At the risk of the “no politics” rule, for some of us, putting up with our current president can be a frustrating test of our sanity and positive outlook, to have to put up with a Sad Insane Stupid Person ruling our lives every day, with no choice in the matter.

    If we were angry, we might start lashing out with demonstrations in the street, or throwing around a lot of trash-talk about “shooting”, just to get back at the bad man bothering us, but the smart people instead help everyone else out by taking each of the Sad Insane Stupid quotes that hit the newspapers, and point out the absurdity of them by saying something that would occur to any good intelligent smartass, to make them look even MORE sad, insane and stupid, in a funny way–Making other innocent folk realize they weren’t alone in being reasonably smarter or cleverer than those above them, and we certainly weren’t the ones who said the stupid thing in the first place. If it’s someone important, and he’s bested with something embarrassing, like a Saturday-morning cartoon reference, it’s not only embarrassing, it’s more populist…We knew this and he didn’t.
    That’s how we got political humor, and I’d rather listen to Jon Stewart or John Oliver reduce the day’s headlines to silliness, than listen to some pipe-bomb throwing activist Blame the World for something he can’t fix. One comes from an angry loner, the other comes from somebody a little cleverer who realizes We’re All In This Together.

       2 likes

  12. EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnny Drama: You think Space Mutiny is supposed to be a serious movie? Now that’s funny!
    Even Reb and Cissie have said they were aware during filming they were making a goofy flick, and everyone was in on it.

    Sounds like the line most b-movie makers use after the fact to save some face.

       10 likes

  13. littleaimishboy
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnny Drama:
    a large amount of people seem to consider Space Mutiny the only episode worth watching.

    Not one single person here has posted anything like that.

       12 likes

  14. fatbarkeep
    Ignored
    says:

    Ro-Man/possible Steve: Your post has been nominated for “Best of Thread.”
    Congratulations and good luck.
    :-)

       3 likes

  15. Johnny Drama
    Ignored
    says:

    littleaimishboy: Not one single person here has posted anything like that.

    Sorry, various Facebook groups and other message boards over the years have expressed that sentiment. No one here, though.

       2 likes

  16. Speedy B.
    Ignored
    says:

    If some fans consider “Space Mutiny” the only episode worth watching, I would argue they’re not true fans. And that’s coming from someone who, as I said previously, loves the episode.

       7 likes

  17. new cornjob
    Ignored
    says:

    on behalf of JOEL and the bots:

    “SS HH UU TT — UU PP !!”
    “SS HH UU TT — UU PP !!”

    (entered such a way that i wish the letters were 4x as big to emphasize my feelings!)

       9 likes

  18. Kenneth Morgan
    Ignored
    says:

    I think the episode is funny. And that means…I think the episode is funny. That’s it. Not a blanket statement or overriding judgment. Just a simple opinion. Feel free to disagree with me. I’m cool with that.

       14 likes

  19. Sitting Duck
    Ignored
    says:

    Justin Corwin:
    I think the bechdel test posts would be more interesting if every movie didn’t seem to fail it. It’s only interesting if the film PASSES the test because it seems rare.

    A curious statement to make at this point. The movies from the previous three episodes have all passed, as do those from the next two episodes.

       2 likes

  20. Sitting Duck
    Ignored
    says:

    That should be previous four episodes.

       0 likes

  21. Yeti of Great Danger
    Ignored
    says:

    Hey, can we now invoke the breaking of the “no politics” rule to call for the banning of a certain someone? That was totally uncalled for. Please, Sampo, make this a fun place again!

    Sitting Duck, would you say that an MST3K movie passing the Bechdel Test is rare in general, although perhaps not in this stretch of 6-7 episodes? That’s the impression I’ve gotten over the years but have never actually counted. Maybe “uncommon” vs. the term “rare.”

       6 likes

  22. Sitting Duck
    Ignored
    says:

    Yeti of Great Danger:
    Sitting Duck, would you say that an MST3K movie passing the Bechdel Test is rare in general, although perhaps not in this stretch of 6-7 episodes?That’s the impression I’ve gotten over the years but have never actually counted.Maybe “uncommon” vs. the term “rare.”

    It’s been a while since I last did a count. My recollection is that more pass than fail. A possibly interesting statistic I’ve come across is that older films pass with greater frequency than the newer ones. Make of that what you will.

       2 likes

  23. Justin Corwin
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: But what do you think it’s accomplishing when M&tB “hate on it”?That they went out and bullied someone that bothered them, and you’re feeling the rush of getting to stand next to the cool kid, so you gotta hate what he hates if he’s going to invite you into his private gang of cool troublemakers, just because he got away with pranking the teacher like you wished you could?

    It’s a problem with kids who not only grew up with Sci-Fi only, but also grew up with cineplexes, and thought it was common to hate going to the theater at all–We go to the ‘plexes to see the big Transformers movie, grouse about a lot of idiots with cellphones, and like M&tB, fold our arms at the screen and say “Okay, Michael Bay, you got your twelve bucks, now get your latest psychotic episode freakin’ OVER with!”That’s because anyone who dares make a bad movie is somehow offending us personally, you see, because he rolled us for twelve bucks to treat us like idiots, and we’ll get it back from him sooner or later, just you wait.
    We didn’t have that as much back in CC’s 90’s, when theaters were more fun: I remember being in the Friday-night audience for the 90’s Godzilla and Batman & Robin–And about ten or fifteen minutes in, when we suddenly realized these were not going to be the good movies we thought they were, the response wasn’t “Okay, Movie, here comes the punch in the teeth!”, it was this united feeling that the whole audience of strangers was now comrades-in-arms, and we could either walk out, or some of us could stay and see just how bad it would GET.There was a curiosity to do the latter.

    To use the CC Joel/Manos comparison, the host segs are all about how J&tB start out wanting to sit through the movie to the end, but it’s such disturbing and mind-numbing pain to sit through that the Bots end up in frantic tears, and even Dr. F and Frank are forced to apologize for showing it.J&tB’s problems are our problems, because we were so willing to give this week’s episode the benefit of the doubt too, but halfway in, dear gods, what were we WATCHING??
    The CC era asked us to share their moviegoing experience by inviting us to stare and “WTF?” along, the narcissistic Sci-Fi era naturally assumed that we’ll know it’s bad because the hosts say it’s bad, so c’mon, guys, bring your bats and let’s go wilding!

    Like “nice” Jonah, I’d rather be a member of a theater audience that liked to be there but didn’t know what they’d gotten themselves into, than one encouraged to Get Mean, ‘Cause It’s Fun.If liking movies, even when they’re strange, bad and stupid enough to joke about, and showing off my offbeat Smarter-than-you cleverness to do it, makes me “Too nice”, well, you damn well got THAT right.:)

    (And if some people say Mutiny was strange, bad and stupid enough to innocently joke about, rather than Rifftrax’s “Let’s all kick Avatar in the crotch for being popular!”, well that’s a good thing too…I just sorta missed whatever it was in Mutiny I was supposed to laugh at.)

    You said a lot to respond to.. I’ll start out by acknowledging and kind of agreeing with your broad point of cultural shifts to more cynical outlooks on all fronts including movies. We both seem to agree that season 11’s positivity is good and needed. Jonah Ray legit loves Manos so he your kind of host in a way and his love for bad movies (as well as Joel’s influence) shows. But I agree with Trace B. On manos… To quote him “I ****ing hate that movie.” I also hate your bullying analogy. I have been bullied and took on the role of a bully at different points in my young life, Bullying is about power and the bully is always punching down. If you really want to dive deep in it the entire show is an act of bullying (yes even the Joel years). They are punching at actors, filmmakers, etc that can’t punch back. I said Joel was too nice to manos but there was plenty of disrespect to the filmmakers in that episode. The mads apologizing for how bad the film is, Joel shouting ‘Do something!, etc.. All of those riffs were them getting laughs at the filmmakers expense not with them. Your analogy about siding with the cool kids as they bully someone fits those prime Joel moments as well. What Joel accomplished in this moments was laughs and sometimes therapeutic in the context of the show which is how we absorb the riffing. I find the premise of the show to be a bit life affirming and it’s OK to get angry at the **** life throws at you sometimes. The two eras are not that different philosophically but Joel just liked more of the movies and they didn’t get as many irredeemable turd fests as mike from what I’ve seen, look at the film selection of season 3 vs season 6. Yeah season 3 is going to be more positive because a bad movie can still be charming or at least not offensive and season 3 had a ton of them.. Gamera films for example.

    I just watched Beast of Yucca Flats this week. The movie makes me angry. Yet mike and the bots let the movie roll over them without the passionate rejection that the film deserves.. Thus not a good episode for me. When mike and the bots disdain for a film matches the riffing and my disdain for the film I love it.

    Bringing up John Stewart as an example of someone who does it well is interesting to me. John Stewart is a hero of mine and I have seen every single episode of the daily show when he was hosting… The dude is 1000 times more negative, mocking, and disrespectful of the news media than mike and the gang have ever been to a film on the show. You might not see it that way because those same things he hates make you angry too (me too). You don’t get angry at films.. I do. So what mike and bots have accomplished is the same as what John Stewart accomplished for their respective riffing targets. John Stewart isn’t a bully and in the case of Space Mutiny neither is mike and the gang.

       10 likes

  24. Justin Corwin
    Ignored
    says:

    To put it simpler: the way certain filmmakers make movies is personally offensive to me.. I would think you could understand this because,it’s clear that the way mike and the gang riff movies is obviously personally offensive to you. To the point where you will passionately defend your view point and put down others who don’t share your view. Why does mike’s riffing style get you all riled up?… I’ll bet it’s because he took a style of comedy you love and made it wrong. (In your view.). Can’t you understand someone having the same personal reaction to say Batman and Robin if one was a big batman fan? Or say Manos if one was a fan of horror films?

       5 likes

  25. Justin Corwin
    Ignored
    says:

    Sitting Duck: A curious statement to make at this point. The movies from the previous three episodes have all passed, as do those from the next two episodes.

    I wouldn’t know. I only follow the comments on episodes I’ve seen and in general most of the movies riffed on the show that I have seen are light on female characters.

       0 likes

  26. Justin Corwin
    Ignored
    says:

    Thad Boyd: But that’s the entire point of the Bechdel Test! It’s a trivially simple test to pass, and yet a truly shocking proportion of movies fails it.

    The punchline of the comic strip that introduced it was “Last movie I was able to see was Alien.”

    I see your point but why stop there… Why not have a positive black character test? Majority of these films will fail any social justice test you could throw at it because of the obvious and well known cultural dynamics of the time period in which these are made. just my take on it. You think having two women talk to each about something other than a man is worth labeling every film a pass or fail but why not other commonplace diversity failings? Black men kissing white girls on screen test? White actors cast in nonwhite characters test? Couple examples. I just don’t find the bechdel test that interesting.

       0 likes

  27. Justin Corwin
    Ignored
    says:

    Johnny Drama: I don’t think that’s the original premise of the show. He’s just keeping his sanity with the help of his robot friends. MST3K is not a roast, but more of a thought association program. Hey that scene reminds me of such and such, I think I’ll make a riff about that. Of course, we all have our varied opinions about that thought.

    I can take some ball busting, New York style humor here and there, and knowing that MST3K is a comedy, I realize they’re just jokes and not meant to be malicious. But it does get to me when they

    No one sets out to make a bad movie. Making a movie, any movie, is incredibly difficult, excruciating hard work, especially on a micro-budget. So I honor those filmmakers for going out there and trying to make something they thought was good. I would never slam them for that. Without them, there would be no MST3K.

    People do set out to make cheap rubbish for quick cash… sometimes filmmakers do cruel and moral bankrupt things to make something they think will make money.. Filmmakers are like anyone else, most are decent folks, some are just greedy, some just need to pay a mortgage or child support, some are criminal, and some are evil. Honor those worth honoring.

       3 likes

  28. Benjamin Wink
    Ignored
    says:

    As others have stated, this episode makes me laugh, so I enjoy it. I’ve been a fan since season 2 and each season has individual highlights and meh experiments to me.

    For instance the two episodes after Space Mutiny aren’t in my rotation often. Never really cared for them. Does that mean I hate Mike and the bots? Nope. Most Gamera movies are like watching paint dry to me. Does that mean I hate Joel and the bots? Nope.

    True, I believe there was a tone shift when Mike took over hosting, but that’s okay for me. Mike isn’t Joel. Bill isn’t Trace. Frank isn’t Josh. If all these characters on the show were exactly like who they replaced, how boring that would be.

    The dynamic has changed and some new blood did that. With all shows, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t. More often than not it fails. Most of the time you get Cousin Oliver or Coy and Vance Duke. But in MST3K’s instance, I think that most of the decisions were good ones and the show soldiered on for ten years.

    Hey, if you don’t like an episode that the masses seem to gravitate towards, no problem. I happen to enjoy Space Mutiny quite a bit, but I won’t go into doctorate level speculations as to why others do/don’t enjoy something with this show. I can’t explain why Night of the Blood Beast and The Rebel Set always crack me up while both The Leech Woman and The Painted Hills do nothing for me.

    But that’s the way forms of media work because we are all not the same person with the same likes and dislikes.

       13 likes

  29. PJ
    Ignored
    says:

    The Original EricJ: But what do you think it’s accomplishing when M&tB “hate on it”?That they went out and bullied someone that bothered them, and you’re feeling the rush of getting to stand next to the cool kid, so you gotta hate what he hates if he’s going to invite you into his private gang of cool troublemakers, just because he got away with pranking the teacher like you wished you could?

    It’s a problem with kids who not only grew up with Sci-Fi only, but also grew up with cineplexes, and thought it was common to hate going to the theater at all–We go to the ‘plexes to see the big Transformers movie, grouse about a lot of idiots with cellphones, and like M&tB, fold our arms at the screen and say “Okay, Michael Bay, you got your twelve bucks, now get your latest psychotic episode freakin’ OVER with!”That’s because anyone who dares make a bad movie is somehow offending us personally, you see, because he rolled us for twelve bucks to treat us like idiots, and we’ll get it back from him sooner or later, just you wait.
    We didn’t have that as much back in CC’s 90’s, when theaters were more fun: I remember being in the Friday-night audience for the 90’s Godzilla and Batman & Robin–And about ten or fifteen minutes in, when we suddenly realized these were not going to be the good movies we thought they were, the response wasn’t “Okay, Movie, here comes the punch in the teeth!”, it was this united feeling that the whole audience of strangers was now comrades-in-arms, and we could either walk out, or some of us could stay and see just how bad it would GET.There was a curiosity to do the latter.

    To use the CC Joel/Manos comparison, the host segs are all about how J&tB start out wanting to sit through the movie to the end, but it’s such disturbing and mind-numbing pain to sit through that the Bots end up in frantic tears, and even Dr. F and Frank are forced to apologize for showing it.J&tB’s problems are our problems, because we were so willing to give this week’s episode the benefit of the doubt too, but halfway in, dear gods, what were we WATCHING??
    The CC era asked us to share their moviegoing experience by inviting us to stare and “WTF?” along, the narcissistic Sci-Fi era naturally assumed that we’ll know it’s bad because the hosts say it’s bad, so c’mon, guys, bring your bats and let’s go wilding!

    Like “nice” Jonah, I’d rather be a member of a theater audience that liked to be there but didn’t know what they’d gotten themselves into, than one encouraged to Get Mean, ‘Cause It’s Fun.If liking movies, even when they’re strange, bad and stupid enough to joke about, and showing off my offbeat Smarter-than-you cleverness to do it, makes me “Too nice”, well, you damn well got THAT right.:)

    (And if some people say Mutiny was strange, bad and stupid enough to innocently joke about, rather than Rifftrax’s “Let’s all kick Avatar in the crotch for being popular!”, well that’s a good thing too…I just sorta missed whatever it was in Mutiny I was supposed to laugh at.)

    You worked in accounting in the same place Mike temped, didn’t you?

       6 likes

  30. touches no one's life, then leaves
    Ignored
    says:

    monoceros4:
    The Bellerian priestess tells Capt. Janssen to “use what he has learned”. His decisive action? Pass the buck

    Can you think of a more important lesson for a leader to learn? ;-)

    mst3ktemple:
    #32 the movie doesn’t really say that the pilot’s ejection was automatic.It says it was only hooked up to the pilot’s seat and I guess that sort of makes that a reasonable assumption.Otherwise all the comments make it sound like he ejected on his own.

    Captain Santa says “You’re lucky you saved yourself”

    Cissy says “he ejected and he’s alive”

    and even Chunk says “I had to eject”

    Either way, its not real clear that he did the heroic thing.

    So his option was to, what, stay and DIE with everyone else? That’s even less heroic.

    Besides, why would he feel obliged to be heroic? He’s just some guy. History is full of people not doing the heroic thing.

       2 likes

  31. DaveJ3k
    Ignored
    says:

    Come on, unOriginal ErikJ, in the grand scheme of things, getting so worked up every week about a TV show that is barely even on the air anymore isn’t healthy, man. Your long-winded diatribes, your blathering, blithering, and babbling run-on posts, while possibly well thought out, are not going to convince me or anyone else I know to stop liking what I/we like. I love the Mike episodes. I love the Joel episodes. I love some better than others. Nothing you say is EVER going to get me to change my mind about liking a wonderful, harmless little fracking TV show, ok?! Please stop trying so hard. Just buy it, you’ll sleep better. Thank you.

       12 likes

  32. Sitting Duck
    Ignored
    says:

    So went back to the Bechdel Test raw data I’ve accumulated and did some counting. Out of the 190 non-KTMA episodes, I’ve so far done 167. Of those, 85 pass, 80 fail, and two (Santa Claus and Touch of Satan) are too ambiguous to call it one way or the other.

       2 likes

  33. touches no one's life, then leaves
    Ignored
    says:

    John M .Hanna:
    I heard some internet reviewer comment that the spaceship the Southern Sun is actually the ‘B’ Ark from ‘Hitchhikers Guide’ carrying the useless third of the Golgonfrinchans.Considering how stupid the people are in this movie, thats very plausible.

    It’s a generational ship. The secret ingredient is “incest.”

       2 likes

  34. Mr. Krasker
    Ignored
    says:

    Sitting Duck:
    So went back to the Bechdel Test raw data I’ve accumulated and did some counting. Out of the 190 non-KTMA episodes, I’ve so far done 167. Of those, 85 pass, 80 fail, and two (Santa Claus and Touch of Satan) are too ambiguous to call it one way or the other.

    I find this surprising. I’d have expected far more to have failed the test.

    Thanks for keeping up with this!

       4 likes

  35. PJ
    Ignored
    says:

    DaveJ3k:
    Come on, unOriginal ErikJ, in the grand scheme of things, getting so worked up every week about a TV show that is barely even on the air anymore isn’t healthy, man. Your long-winded diatribes, your blathering, blithering, and babbling run-on posts, while possibly well thought out, are not going to convince me or anyone else I know to stop liking what I/we like. I love the Mike episodes. I love the Joel episodes. I love some better than others. Nothing you say is EVER going to get me to change my mind about liking a wonderful, harmless little fracking TV show, ok?! Please stop trying so hard. Just buy it, you’ll sleep better. Thank you.

    That’s what I can never understand. I said before, “don’t troll the troll” as I put it, and “it makes no sense to gang up on him”. But as I read more, he just paints himself into this world where he will not listen. He’s obviously well educated and if his argument made a good case and wasn’t just an old debate, much of his knowledge is surprisingly well thought out. But he has a vendetta that does no good for anyone and he just doesn’t know when to quit. Leave the soapbox out and maybe people would lighten up in return Eric.

       10 likes

  36. The Original EricJ
    Ignored
    says:

    Justin Corwin: You said a lot to respond to..I’ll start out by acknowledging and kind of agreeing with your broad point of cultural shifts to more cynical outlooks on all fronts including movies. We both seem to agree that season 11’s positivity is good and needed. Jonah Ray legit loves Manos so he your kind of host in a way and his love for bad movies (as well as Joel’s influence) shows. But I agree with Trace B. On manos… To quote him “I ****ing hate that movie.”I also hate your bullying analogy. I have been bullied and took on the role of a bully at different points in my young life, Bullying is about power and the bully is always punching down.If you really want to dive deep in it the entire show is an act of bullying (yes even the Joel years). They are punching at actors, filmmakers, etc that can’t punch back. I said Joel was too nice to manos but there was plenty of disrespect to the filmmakers in that episode.

    (If I’d gone off on generalizations about the Joel years, wouldn’t somebody at this point be saying “Yeah, but Mike was head writer back then, so there!”?) ;)

    The mads apologizing for how bad the film is, Joel shouting ‘Do something!, etc.. All of those riffs were them getting laughs at the filmmakers expense not with them. Your analogy about siding with the cool kids as they bully someone fits those prime Joel moments as well. What Joel accomplished in this moments was laughs and sometimes therapeutic in the context of the show which is how we absorb the riffing.I find the premise of the show to be a bit life affirming and it’s OK to get angry at the **** life throws at you sometimes.

    What, you mean, “When life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade”? Where’d we last hear that? :)

    Getting back to the whole Cineplex Generation, it comes back to the audience: Watch a CT Live video, or even a good RT Live (a good one with actual material, like their ShortsFests), and in the right perfect “WTF??” moments, you’ll hear the audience burst BEFORE there’s been a riff–When Santa tells Rudolph “I need you tonight”, the audience reaction is almost instant before MK&B can do their big expressions and obvious follow-up. It’s an audience moment, because the joke hit everyone’s mind at the same time, and then the laugh came from everyone realizing it had hit everyone’s mind at the same time…And then someone got another laugh for saying it out loud.
    We don’t have big palace theaters or all-night movie festivals, those have to be artificially created out of big marketing events on the tours, and we think it’s the Good People bringing it to us like fire from Mount Olympus. Nope–All you have to do is create the right conditions, and if you’ve ever been in the fan-mindset of those CT/RT audiences before the show or during intermission, even when the comics weren’t onstage, you could start showing the right riffable movies onscreen without the comics, and there would still be a fun time for all.

    The one reason I started watching MST3K back in S1 was because something had finally recreated all those moments I remembered from rowdy sci-festival audiences, that didn’t need comics to make the crazy reactions for them (like the Forbidden Planet moment I mentioned in the “Good/Bad” WDT last week)–When you’re all together, even Bad is Fun. And fun is when you’re Not Angry, because Smart People never have to be.

    Justin Corwin:
    To put it simpler: the way certain filmmakers make movies is personally offensive to me..
    Can’t you understand someone having the same personal reaction to say Batman and Robin if one was a big batman fan?Or say Manos if one was a fan of horror films?

    Like somebody else already said, nobody used to set out to make a bad movie–Roger Corman was actually a pretty smart guy, but in his day, he knew you had to make a movie fast, get it out to the Friday-night drive-ins, and if it didn’t make money, you were probably already at work on the next one. It’s hard for us to understand that today, with The Asylum making a self-franchised jackass of itself pumping out self-aware Sharknado C-quels whether we want them to or not, because they can dump them on any old disk or streaming deal they want to, and not have to worry about losing their shirts on a big drive-in opening weekend. And yes, RT thinks that’s “Bad movies”, and why those movies offend you so.
    Back in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, American Int’l or Crown Pictures DID risk their shirts on giving us a Friday-night blast, if even just one Friday or Saturday, and that’s what makes B-movies so fun or frustrating: B-movie producers knew they had only one chance to go all out and Grab the Kids, and the fun, good and bad, is in watching how hard they tried.
    That’s where ya get back into the idea of The Audience. If you’ve ever been in that rowdy audience for something that tried too hard and failed, I shouldn’t have to explain MST3K to you at all. At its best, it’s not about a “Crazed mob bullying payback for the crimes done unto them”, it’s that feeling of watching an utterly unexplainable moment, and wanting to ask the complete stranger next to you “Are you watching this too??” And if you hear the audience burst out with a laugh or crazy cheer at a bad moment, um, yes. They are.

    J&tB just take those moments and hit us with the same surprise we’d have if we heard smartass comments out of the darkness in the audience, just that they have better writers to do it. Again, that’s one thing you learn if you’ve ever SAT in a theater, without hating it.

       1 likes

  37. new cornjob
    Ignored
    says:

    i dunno whether or not this will make me sound -less- than an egotistical d*ck than i just accused one/some others of being, but if i may just a sec quote…
    “Justin Corwin” :…
    “Why not have a positive black character test? Majority of these films will fail any social justice test you could throw at it because of the obvious and well known cultural dynamics of the time period in which these are made. just my take on it. You think having two women talk to each about something other than a man is worth labeling every film a pass or fail but why not other commonplace diversity failings? Black men kissing white girls on screen test? White actors cast in nonwhite characters test? Couple examples. I just don’t find the bechdel test that interesting.”

    well, i -would- find those example test very interesting!! there should be a website just dedicated to these kinds of superquick film studies/surveys. the way you worded that, made it sound like -all- of those examples are inconsequential to consider. was that your meaning? or were you demeaning the one, simply because the others are not already ‘at the ready’-made for you to also pound your fist down upon your keyboard about?

    p.s. meanwhile… ;0 y’know, at this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if ‘orig EJ’ reponded negatively to ‘orig EJ’, or EJ to neg-resp to EJ, as EJ seems to -not- be as likely to be (one of) the programmed agent(s) of the forum… or any other avatar to do the same in some such automatically prescribed manner… because they are simply programmed to do so (and i -don’t- think they are simply AI/agents doing this… which is about the most insulting thing i can think of to say at this point in place and time.) maybe… -prove- your humanity, next time, in your next posting??

    point between-the-lines being… if you did not understand my “joel and the bots would say, ‘SHUT UP'” re-riffing back a few comments back… if you did not think the -ORIGINATORS- of this series were -NOT- all that hardcore about telling a movie off… you simply -aren’t- paying attention. you simply -are- trying to stir STUPID SH*T UP AMONG COOL, GRACIOUS FANS OF THE SHOW… who have ZERO animosity towards differing eps/eras of the show than -YOU- DO; who have SO MUCH MORE INTELLIGENTY SELECTIVE CONCERNS within their worldsphere of geopolitics/cultural concerns than you do, who have OBVIOUSLY SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT (AND STUPID!!!) THINGS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD TO PAY ATTENTION TO.

    you are simply demanding people to LOOK AT YOUR STUPID D*CK, which is ALREADY STUPIDLY SMALL AND INCONSEQUENTIAL to world life/issues/politics/cultural ishes that have NOTHING AT ALL!!!! TO!!! DO!!!! WITH YOUR STUPIDLY!!!! SMALL!!! AND INCONSEQUENTIAL!!! D*CK!!!!!

    FIND SOMETHING ELSE MORE TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE!!!!!! BORED, BORING AND NOSEY IS THE BREEDING GROUND FOR THE ‘QUIET GERMANS’ – AND YOU’RE LEADING THE WAY FOR THEM!

    so, SHUT – UP!

    p.p.s. and i -still- think that “old” babe cecie is one hawt mama. rock that hula-hoop baby!

       3 likes

  38. Johnny Drama
    Ignored
    says:

    The philosophy of MST3K:
    https://youtu.be/yk-E-BWh4aM?t=1h32m56s

       2 likes

  39. Sitting Duck
    Ignored
    says:

    Mr. Krasker: I find this surprising.I’d have expected far more to have failed the test.

    Some who apply it insist that one or both characters in a conversation be named. Since the original comic doesn’t specify being limited to named characters, I don’t either. For example, Mad Monster passes when the Shirley Temple clone negotiates with her mom for a later bedtime.

       0 likes

  40. GareChicago
    Ignored
    says:

    Sitting Duck:

    For the record, I enjoy the Bechdel posts, as they provide another take on the movies/episodes that we enjoy. Just because *one* type of test exists doesn’t mean it’s inferior somehow because every *other* type of interaction isn’t included. Here’s a thought for those who want to see stats on other issues in these films: go ahead and do your own testing and post the results. Otherwise, y’know.. pipe down.

    Gare

       6 likes

  41. Cornjob
    Ignored
    says:

    Episode funny. Cornjob not understand why so much anger.

       9 likes

  42. bagger vance
    Ignored
    says:

    Wow, an endless discussion of SJW-favorite “Bechdel test” and multiple castigations from the resident “you shouldn’t be enjoying this” Masshole.

    Was anyone wondering why all the new people watching the show after the Netflix season haven’t stuck around? It’s a mystery!

       0 likes

  43. docskippy
    Ignored
    says:

    bagger vance: Wow, an endless discussion of SJW-favorite “Bechdel test”

    BZZZ! Sorry Mr. White Male Reality, but your use of the snarl acronym “SJW” means you lose the lightning round. You won’t keep your prize money and you won’t be invited back to next week’s taping. But here’s a copy of the home game you can enjoy by yourself.

       5 likes

  44. docskippy
    Ignored
    says:

    Cornjob:
    Episode funny. Cornjob not understand why so much anger.

    Anger is indeed deeply puzzling. It seems to be the chief export of this once-great nation these days.

       4 likes

  45. littleaimishboy
    Ignored
    says:

    Puppies are cuter than kittens.

       2 likes

  46. new cornjob
    Ignored
    says:

    anger for anger! perhaps wasn’t “worth it” to some, but i generally do not believe in pillow-fighting. sorry if i disappoint’chaz all, my compadres… but i would ask you to consider the effectiveness of “pulling punches.” “leadership from below, and not above,” is my philosophy.

    p.s. don’t “miss the points” in-between! and, no kidding doc – once i finally found out what “SJW” was supposed to mean, i thought, “really?? they want to -insult- us with -that-??” talk about – caveman talk… (cue king crimson’s track, “elephant talk”)

       0 likes

  47. touches no one's life, then leaves
    Ignored
    says:

    Justin Corwin: You said a lot to respond to..

    Well, that didn’t mean that anyone had to do so.

    ;-)

       1 likes

  48. touches no one's life, then leaves
    Ignored
    says:

    Not Merritt Stone:
    The “No! This is treason and I warn you I must report!” guy who gets impaled by the cane early on also shows up alive and laughing in a party scene later on in the movie long after he got killed.

    So, he came back from the dead, Lt. Lamont came back from the dead, Kalgan himself came back from the dead…

    Obviously, the Southern Sun is a ship of the undead (making its name only too ironic).

    Maybe that explains the nude woman at the “party”: She was a refreshment…

       2 likes

  49. touches no one's life, then leaves
    Ignored
    says:

    mikek:
    How could anyone make this movie with a straight face is?

    ACTING!!!

       5 likes

  50. PJ
    Ignored
    says:

    touches no one’s life, then leaves: ACTING!!!

    THANK YOU!!

       2 likes

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