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Weekend Discussion Thread: Best/Worst KTMA EpisodeAlert reader Phil notes that as we go through the seasons updating the episode guide…
Good idea! Now that we’ve finished up with KTMA, let’s hear it. My picks: What are your picks? 48 Replies to “Weekend Discussion Thread: Best/Worst KTMA Episode”Commenting at Satellite News
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I would have to agree with Samp, K13 was the first KTMA I saw and it wasn’t that bad. And it sure is a poooper having to watch a film with JUST Joel in it. The host segments, being not as bad, made up for it at least.
*Sampo
I tried watching Mighty Jack and Fugitive Alien but couldn’t go beyond 15 minutes. All of the KTMA episodes are pretty terrible.
The best episode is the one they never did. The worst is all of them. Not watchable. Sorry.
Hangar 18
Best: K21 – The “Legend of the Dinosaurs”
Worst: K20 – The Last Chase
My problem with “The Last Chase” is that the movie is so dull it’s difficult for me to appreciate the riffs. In sharp contrast, the music soundtrack to The “Legend of the Dinosaurs” is enough to keep me laughing, while the riffs are at their apex for this season.
Those early Gamera episodes, and even on up through Humanoid Woman, are fascinating to see because they’re developing the show at such a rapid rate. “Gamera vs Barugon” is unique for Josh’s “Kermit” voice, “Gamera” feels as if it’s just you and Joel hanging out and watching a movie (the closest any of us will ever get to this experience), “Gamera vs Gaos” for having just Joel and Josh riff and do host segments, and so on and so forth. In fact, this whole season has such interesting oddities in nearly every episode which makes them so unique.
Plus these KTMA episodes would make the GREATEST extras ever, so I sincerely hope Jim, Joel and Shout don’t drop the ball and omit the KTMA Gameras from the upcoming Gamera set.
Best: “Gamera Vs. Zigra” because it was my first episode of MST3k.
Worst: “Humanoid Woman” because it sinks like a lead balloon.
Best: Humanoid Woman. The movie is perfect for mst3k, it has early electronic music, and its a generally odd sci fi movie
worst: city on fire: not that there was anything wrong with it- just not a very happy movie ;)
Worst – Million Eyes of Sumuru. Mainly for all the ‘I didn’t just hear that’ racist riffs.
Best – Phase IV. The early ant riffing segment is among the strongest of the early seasons.
I’m also going to agree with Sampo and Alex. SST was the first KTMA I saw, too. I remember getting it through a tape trade in about ’94, when not much was known in the fan community about the KTMAs. It was a big shock initially to see the *really* loose, improvised riffing. But I could see the roots of the show I knew it would become.
As for Gamera, I think it’s low quality is due not only to Joel riffing alone, but to the fact that they hadn’t sufficiently developed riffing as an art form by that point. Remember, riffing wasn’t a big part of Joel’s initial concept for the show. And it sure shows in that one!
Death flight could have been a great later season episode with all the celebrities to riff on but still is a fairly good effort….Hanger 18 is just so dull I can’t bring myself to watch it again for pleasure..maybe only for research purposes……
K13 SST Death Flight is the only KTMA episode I’ve seen. It’s decent, but there’s still too many missed opportunities.
“Form a congoline!” still cracks me up though.
I’ve never been a fan of the KTMA season because they were just starting out and if they continued like that,then the show wouldn’t have lasted more than 2 seasons,if that.Thankfully,they got better and better each time,so having said all of that,I guess SST:DEATH FLIGHT is the only episode I can think of offhand that wasn’t too bad.As far as the worst? Well,I don’t have a favorite and I don’t have a least favorite because the KTMA season is a season I don’t go to at all for my MST3K fix.Even season 1 they got a little bit better,but they didn’t hit their stride until season 3.
I’ve never been a fan of the KTMA season because they were just starting out and if they continued like that,then the show wouldn’t have lasted more than 2 seasons,if that.Thankfully,they got better and better each time,so having said all of that,I guess SST DEATH FLIGHT is the only episode I can think of offhand that wasn’t too bad.As far as the worst? Well,I don’t have a favorite and I don’t have a least favorite because the KTMA season is a season I don’t go to at all for my MST3K fix.Even season 1 they got a little bit better,but they didn’t hit their stride until season 3.
“Time of the Apes” was my favorite (not sure ‘best’ is the right word.) It’s very goofy, another Japanese Sandy Frank classic. Also, it’s interesting to see how Trace and Josh jell without Joel, who is gone for one reason or another.
“Cosmic Princess” is one of my least favorites (again, ‘worst’ isn’t the work I’d use here.) It’s the 1970’s made for TV sci-fi heavy handed movie that makes this one drag for me.
The KTMA episodes are a bit like childbirth. The birth is certainly uneven and messy, but the result is something to behold.
Best- City On Fire. Strong all around.
Worst- Phase IV. Doesn’t do anything for me and I’d rather a show leave an impression on me than do nothing for me.
Best: City on Fire. Honorable mention: Superdome and Phase IV.
Worst: probably any of the Gamera’s, but Su-maru was surprisingly bad as well.
Sadly, due to my age, (i was four during the KTMA years) i’ve never seen any. Is there any (legal) websites that show them?
My favorite has to be SST Death Flight just because it reminds me so much of AIRPLANE!! I didn’t like the first TOTA’s was glad they reriffed it in season 3. BTW Happy 64th BDAY to Daid Bowie!
Best: SST: Death Flight
Good: Gamera v. Guiron, Phase IV, Superdome, City on Fire, Million Eyes of Su-Muru, Hangar 18, Legend of the Dinosaur
Bad: the rest
Worst: Humanoid Woman
BEST Legend of the Dinosaur-Not sure why this one tickles me, but it does. Love it when Servo dances to the swinging music at the beach.
WORST Gamera vs Baragon-Really dark print and quiet theater. Consistantly in my 10 worst with most time as the worst episode.
Best: K21- THE LEGEND OF DINOSAURS (*****)
Best runners-up: K13- SST DEATH FLIGHT, K20- THE LAST CHASE (both****)
Worst: K05- GAMERA (*)
All the rest rated between 2 or 3 stars for me, and really vary according to mood and viewing circumstance (on TV vs. laptop, sleepiness, level of intoxication).
Special Awards —
Best Made Movie: PHASE IV
Weirdest Movie: HUMANOID WOMAN
Also:
IN MEMORIAM
Lazlow The MST Guy @ blip.tv. He couldn’t keep up with the fast pace of the Episode Guides. Too bad, I enjoyed his video re-caps of the KTMA’s. (Was he finally eaten by Zombie Girl?) R.I.P.
To confused @ #18: I believe all the KTMA’s are on YouTube. IIRC, “ladylindsay416” has the best looking copies.
That is weird, I would swear I posted earlier…
#22, I am still around, I should be releasing KTMA 19 Hangar 18 tonight, but you were right, trying to write and film an episode in a week when you work full time was almost impossible…
Anyway, in case anyone is interested in watching the KTMA episodes I have video reviews of them up on my site:
http://www.laidoffproductions.com
After tonight I will only have 2 episodes left for the KTMA season then it is on to season 1…
#4
Here, Here, SuperSwift!! Best post yet!! This whole KTMA thing is sooooo overrated and sooooo tired.
I’m really not qualified to make a choice because I havent seen them all.
But on the basis of what I have seen, I agree that ‘SST Deathflight’ was the best so far.
There was a lot more potential that went unused, as a team of writers like they had in the later years and using the timecode method would have made the episode ten times funnier.
I know that the friends I watched it with agreed, that we were kind of left to our own devices with the movie, coming up with our own riffs that would have worked fine had they used them. We almost got more pleasure out of that than the actual riffing of the brains.
I can’t say the worst, but the worst I saw was ‘Sumuru’ which left me hankerin’ for switching to a different episode the whole time (and for a hunk of cheese too).
Better? (again, the preview had no question marks)
2 K04- GAMERA VS. BARUGON
1 K05- GAMERA
3 K06- GAMERA VS. GAOS
2 K07- GAMERA VS. ZIGRA
3 K08- GAMERA VS. GUIRON
2 K09- PHASE IV
2 K10- COSMIC PRINCESS
2 K11- HUMANOID WOMAN
3 K12- FUGITIVE ALIEN
4 K13- SST DEATH FLIGHT
2 K14- MIGHTY JACK
3 K15- SUPERDOME
3 K16- CITY ON FIRE
3 K17- TIME OF THE APES
3 K18- THE MILLION EYES OF SU-MURU
3 K19- HANGAR 18
4 K20- THE LAST CHASE (originally a 3)
5 K21- THE LEGEND OF DINOSAURS
I enjoy SST:Death Flight the most, although I don’t know how you can have a movie with Martin Milner and George Maharis in it and not mention Route 66 at all.
Josh’s “Love Boat on the left, Fantasy Island on the right” riff is one of the best ever, IMO.
Worst for me is probably Humanoid Woman.
best sst death flight
worst last chase.i have not seen them all but last chase was slow moving slug of a movie.that seems to have an effect on riffing.
not all ktma episodes are that enjoyable,but interesting for fanboys.& girls.
I haven’t seen them all, specifically the Sandy Frank ones, but I’ll pick best and worst among the rest.
Best: SST Death Flight-I think this one had a decent plot and reasonably kept my attention, and the cast had some bigger names. I’M PETER GRAVES, AND I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA. Sorry I couldn’t resist.
Worst: Million Eyes of Su-muru, I started to watch this on youtube and never finished it because it bored me.
Well, my favorite KTMA (and MST3K episode, period) is K10: Cosmic Princess. It helps that I’m a fan of Space: 1999, but I just felt the host segments and riffing were solid throughout with a more than watchable “movie”.
I do agree that SST: Death Flight is a solid episode, so I’m not surprised it’s winning out here.
As for worst, I’ll agree with K05. It’s really early and just not that good on its own merits. I’d put it behind even the worst of the retched Season seven.
Despite the fact that I just got Volumes XIII & XIX, I think I’ll watch K10 today as a tribute to the topic and in memory of those wrong-headed fans who won’t watch KTMA. ;)
Speaking of Hangar 18:
http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Entertainment/Gary-Collins-arrested.aspx?cp-documentid=27145965
You know, I don’t think anybody has to love, or even like, the KTMA stuff, but all this poo-pooing and crapping all over Season Zero is totally unnecessary and something I don’t understand. It’s all about the history of the show, the evolution of concepts and character, the essence of “where did it all come from, how did it start” . . . all that stuff is what I find fascinating and worthwhile about the KTMA season. I watched all the KTMA’s, and while I won’t be revisiting them anytime soon, I am glad I spent the time with them. I’m just the type of guy (and fan) who cares about where his favorite entertainment comes from and how it all got started.
Anyway. . . .as far as best/worst goes:
BEST MOVIE: K09-Phase IV, the ant movie. It’s pretty decent.
BEST/FUNNIEST EXPERIMENT: K13-SST Deathflight. Loads of riffing, funny TV movie, KTMA gold.
EXPERIMENT THAT NEEDS MORE LOVE: K20-The Last Chase. C’mon guys, don’t be so hard on this one. This one has Burgess Meredith being crazy Burgess Meredith and as Joel points out, “He is juiced.”
WORST EXPERIMENT/MOVIE: K05-Gamera, the one where Joel watches the movie alone, is hard to sit through to the extreme. K14-Mighty Jack is just as bad though.
.
You know, I though this would be easy when I saw the post, but I’m actually having a difficult time with it.
But first, my two geeky cents. No, the KTMA episodes aren’t classics, and at their worst they can be pretty slow. All right, tedious. Still, I started watching during season 2, and for several years was being treated to the show at its best. Seeing season one came with the rise of Interwebs in the aughts. The KTMA episodes came later still for me. And it was impossible to avoid judging the early stuff without thinking of what would come later. It would’ve been great to experience it in order, and see things just keep getting better (you know… ’til they started getting worse again), and I figure I’d appreciate the era a lot more.
So I’m going to completely go against the tide here and suggest that Su-Muru is the best of KTMA. One thing that really WAS a delight about finally seeing these episodes was seeing how un-MST like the movies were. Color! Celebrities! Science fiction! And Su-Muru, in spite of the washed out pan-and-scan print, was a wild, fun movie. With a bona fide celebrity and wall-to-wall babes. And some genuine laughs, which I won’t enumerate.
Worst? I’ll probably have to agree with Gamera, just for the long stretches of riff-free (in)action. And I find the movie tough to deal with in either version. Though I’m tempted to go with one of the made-for-TV soapers, which I find tough to watch even with the ridicule.
Finally, I’m surprised to see that so many ‘worst’ votes are going for episodes with movies that were actually the most entertaining (read: bizarre, oddball) in their own right.
Love the best/worst discussion threads. But I haven’t watched a full episode of the KTMA era so I’ll have pass on a thought. But looking forward to the best/worst of the other upcoming seasons! And GO PACK!
I’ve only seen about six KTMA episodes, but I really enjoyed Humanoid Woman. The movie is weird, translates to English badly, and the comments that are there are funny. And though I haven’t watched them in quite a while, if I recall correctly some of the scenes in the Death Flight movie were directly parodied in Airplane!, so without MST3K I never would have seen the Airport film series knock-off Death Flight and discovered that fact. Since I’ve only seen a few of these KTMA episodes, I won’t choose a worst.
Having just watched all of the KTMA episodes again in the last couple of weeks they are all pretty fresh in my mind. I must say that the best episode is SST Death Flight, followed by The Last Chase and City on Fire. I wish they had done some of those 1970’s made for TV movies, especially disaster movies, in the regular series, but I can kind of imagine where those would be difficult to get to rights to. I think the worst KTMA episode probably is actually Gamera, but just because of the lack of riffing. Or it might possibly be Gamera vs. Barugon, which is such an awful movie, and being an early one also very barren of riffs. They were obviously still trying to figure out what the show was at that point. In general, when watching the episodes in order and seeing so many Gamera movies in a row it can feel quite tedious at times. Thankfully in the third season they broke them up a bit and the better riffing makes them more endurable. Oddly enough the only Gamera movie that doesn’t bore me to tears is Gamera vs. Guiron, which is definitely the weirdest and most poorly dubbed. I also The “Legend of Dinosaurs” has some fun riffing, but to me that movie is almost unbearable. Not one of my picks for best KTMA episode at all.
As for all the people talking about how “unwatchable” and “bad” the KTMA episodes are, I feel sorry for them (I also have to question how many of them have actually watched all the KTMA episodes in their entirety). The early shows aren’t as good as the later cable episodes, but there are moments in them that make me laugh just as much as any of the later episodes. It’s just that those moments are a lot fewer and further between. But the spontaneous improvised aspect of the riffing made for some classic hilarious moments of the kind that would be almost impossible for them to recreate in the more structured environment of the cable series. And just overall the KTMA shows had an even more care free low budget local TV show charm to them that carried over somewhat, but not completely, to the cable seasons. After the first four or five KTMA episodes you can tell that they had it all figured out pretty well and at that point were just having a blast making them. It’s noticeable both in and out of the theater. That feeling kind of went away in the first cable season, which was understandable. You could tell they were once again trying to figure the show out, and I can imagine the pressure they were under being pretty stressful that first year. It lasted almost until the end of the season before it started feeling like they were once again comfortable, and in their groove. To me it’s this slightly more uptight feeling that hurts the most of the first season episodes far more than anything of things that usually get the blame. The best of the KTMA episodes are to me just as good or better than a lot of the first season. I’d rather watch any of the three KTMA episodes I listed above (and several others as well) than most of the first season. In fact the only first season episodes I’d rate as actually better than my favorite KTMA episodes are Robot Monster, Robot Holocaust, and Moon Zero Two.
Agreed. If you’re going to pick one KTMA to watch, K13 – SST: Death Flight is it. The first time I saw K21 – Legend of Dinosaurs, I hated it, but mostly because the movie is so disturbingly awful. But on this recent re-watch, its qualities came through, and I had to vote accordingly. The riffing is funny, the best of the season.
The lack of comments in this weekend topic reveal how few people have actually seen these episodes, even among long-time fans (some much longer than me). Considering how poor the first nationally run cable season is (in general) I can’t blame anyone for not wanting to delve further back to see the KTMA’s, but if you love the Bots and the Joel-era in general, I think you’re missing out on some fun stuff.
Good news: It seems the reports of Lazlow The MST Guy’s death have been greatly exaggerated (by me). He should make sure to post his links in each episode’s comment thread before they close. His videos are a good way to check out the highlights of each episode without having to watch the whole thing.
Bad news: haters gonna hate
I can’t believe I forgot to mention Superdome in my other comment. I love that episode. It’s almost as good as SST Death Flight. Hanger 18 is a great one too. Overall the show on KTMA was much different, but really great. I imagine that if I had been living in Minneapolis at the time it was on I would have been a big fan, especially since I was only 12 at the time. My first experience with MST was when it was on The Comedy Channel, probably in 1989, and when I was at Six Flags Great America in Illinois. They had just started putting TVs in the lines for rides, and at that time they actually showed things other than blatant commercials. They showed a lot of Loony Tunes but they were also showing clips of Comedy Channel shows, and so they showed several clips from MST’s first season, each of which I saw several times during the day. What little of the show I saw really stuck with me. It’s not like after I went home I sat there obsessing over it. I couldn’t even remember it’s name, but it stuck in my memory, and I wished I could see the actual show. But where I lived we had HA! instead of The Comedy Channel. When they eventually combined and I saw my first commercial for MST3K on the new CTV (soon to be Comedy Central) I instantly recognized it as the show I was fascinated by at Great America, and I couldn’t wait to watch my first episode that Saturday. I believe the very first episode they showed on CTV was a rerun of ep. 201 (I remember the introduction of Frank VERY well), and it started my life long obsession with MST3K, and gave me an instant hero in TV’s Frank.
Superswift> We get it. You don’t like the KTMA season.
I’m going to try to say this as tactfully as I can and then I’m going to drop the subject. Not even the biggest defenders of the KTMA season are going to claim it’s great or classic. But some of us do find it interesting for various reasons. Why can’t you let us have that? What purpose does it serve to post on nearly every KTMA related thread and restate each time that you don’t like it? If there is a thread here which doesn’t interest me (for whatever reason) I probably don’t read it top to bottom and I certainly don’t post if I don’t have anything to add other than ‘I don’t like it’ without offering any actual thoughtful points. That’s just not a very interesting post to read.
We MiSTies are a diverse group and we aren’t all going to like all things MST. But what is the purpose in raining on the parade of others who do like a particular topic.
as “different” as the ktma’s are, they are still light years ahead of ANY reality show EVER!!—oh, and “PACKERS!! WOOHOO!!”
I have to apologize for my lengthy ‘War and Peace’ type comments when I discuss an episode. I just want to take over Sampo’s job and run this website myself. I love MST3K and would never say or type anything negative about it. You see, I have plenty of time on my hands and sometimes I just ramble on about nonsense. Have a good day.
I really enjoy Phase IV ( “the ant movie!” ) and Superdome. I’d love to see BBI lift their ban on releasing KTMA episodes, just for the chance to see those two episodes in something better than nth-generation VHS quality.
/”If you didn’t wanna play with the ants, why did you go over to their house?”
Best: Hangar 18. It’s just a great movie to begin with, and they did a really good job of riffing it, as good as anything in later seasons (as were the last few KTMA episodes, actually, they pretty much had gotten up to speed by the end of the first season).
Worst: Time of the Apes. Maybe it was comprehensible before Sandy Frank got his waxen hands on it, but after being chopped up and dubbed, it was unwatchable.
BEST: “SST Death Flight,” “City on Fire,” “The Last Chase.” Better than a lot of Season 1/2 “MST3K” episodes, IMHO.
WORST: “Cosmic Princess,” “Mighty Jack,” “Gamera.” Either not enough good riffing (or any in the case of “Gamera” ) or too idiotic/bad a movie that J&TB’s rookie asses weren’t ready yet to handle (the other two).
MEMORABLE: “Phase IV” (it was decently-done and such a welcome relief after five consecutive “Gameras” ), “Superdome” and “Hangar 18” (on the cusp of greatness, but the riffing just isn’t funny-enough to get it over the hump).
My Favorite:
Last Chase – I love the movie, it’s a gas (sorry, is that a bad pun?) and the riffing gets me chuckling often.
Honorable Mentions:
Legend of the Dino, Su-Maru, Phase IV
Lest Favorite:
Gamera
And strangely, though it gets the most love, Deathflight does very little for me. I wouldn’t even throw it in my top 10 for the season.
Um. Okay, I’ve kept away from the KTMA episodes this whole time because Joel and the others basically said “They’re not that good, I wouldn’t do it.” and I respected their wishes. God knows I’ve put some stuff on tape that I’m not proud of now, either. HOWEVER, due to the comments on this post, I’ll go check’em out. The Gamera movies were some of my faves from the first years of my watching MST, so to see them riffed badly sounds painful. The “Gamera Fight Song” is something I keep my heart for all time.
I’ve got to admit, I’ve never seen an entire KTMA episode in my life, but I’ve seen the host segments and early riffing in pretty much all of them, and of that, I’ve got to say that the best host segment they did at this time was “Servo and the Blender”, closely followed by “Robot Evolution”, which, if I remember correctly, was the first time Tom lost his head.
For the little riffing I have seen, all I remember are the endless Dairy Queen comments in “Cosmic Princess” and one gag about blowing up whales from “Phase IV”. Otherwise, I’m in the dark, so to speak.
Back in the day, the guys at MST3K announced that the KTMA shows would never be released, because they didn’t resemble the remainder of the series in style or quality….they were correct….those shows looked like auditions, and to an extent, they were….shabby production values and pregnant pauses between the riffs. They,re interesting to watch for completists, just like Joel’s original. test show ( which I just recently saw on You Tube), but they aren’t very good…..sorry, Elvis