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Wired Magazine Piece Buries the LedeJust about everybody gets a say in Brian Raftery’s “definitive oral history” in Wired.
There are some interesting comments by the cast members. Much of the info is stuff we have heard before but some of it is new. But at the very end the piece says this:
Thaaat might have been the headline. 107 Replies to “Wired Magazine Piece Buries the Lede”Commenting at Satellite News
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Regarding Jim Mallon…
As others have said, he might have been rough in his production role but every successful art, in my estimation, relies on conflict. Artists conflicting with economics (producers) and the marketplace (viewing public). This produces a consumable product that hopefully has some originality and forces more talented writers and artists to be resourceful…in the case of MST3K, obviously it did.
Hi-keeba!
#51 JM? Jim, is that you? If so, give Joel the green light!
#52
No, just playing devil’s advocate.
#25 Josh had surgery to remove a kidney due to cancer, he’s ok now. You can read about it here: https://www.mst3kinfo.com/?p=16992
As for the revival, I gotta say I don’t understand what the fuss is about. Seriously, MST3K’s original run was for 10 seasons!!! We have hundreds of hours worth of it! There’s no sense trying to recapture what made it so special, because it won’t work. Even RiffTrax often feels like they’ve been cranking up the fan-pandering dial. Just let the original MST3K stay the classic that it is. I know that there are plenty of people who would break the President’s neck for just two more hours of Crow and Tom silhouettes, but I’m not on board.
Remember very well the early days of the Comedy Channel: Allan Havey, Higgins Boys and Gruber, among others. My ‘discovery’ of MST3K didn’t happen until all of the other original Comedy Channel/Comedy Central programming had been excised.
1993, or there a bouts would have been my arrival with cultural hipness. MST3K was on every weeknight at 11 CST/12 EST. Those were some serious halcyon days. I never have had as much fun while watching television as I did that summer (and beyond) with MST.
Around the same time I also got the online service Prodigy. It was via message boards on that service and via the alt.use groups that I discovered I wasn’t the only person watching this highly original show for people that retained a ton of popular (and unpopular) culture in their collective brains.
That was perhaps the last era where media consumption was still a very personal thing and not a collective thing. When you found this show it felt like it was made just for you. I’m sure a lot of MSTies would say the same.
I’m all for it as long as it’s funny. For me, no matter how it goes, if it happens, MST3K will always be my favorite show. The older shows are what they are. They can’t be ruined for me. After M.A.S.H. didn’t ruin M.A.S.H for me, so neither will a MST3K reboot. So many bad movies… so much for them to riff.
I’d be interested in how it’ll be accomplished, if it does happen. That’s one heck of an experiment. Maybe Joel is Dr. Joel Robinson beaming bad movies up to a new satellite. Maybe it’ll be a different environment all together. I wish Joel and the idea good luck.
Good? He’s the best.
@JM (#55)
I didn’t get the channel until after CC merged with HA!, but I remember “Night After Night”, “Almost Live” and “Sports Monster”. I first caught MST3K while those other, unjustly now-obscure shows were still on.
@Luther Heggs
I hadn’t heard about the Phantasm 5 stuff until you posted about it and I read it 10 minutes ago.
I am honestly more pumped up about seeing The Tall Man than a rebooted MST. Thank you for the info!
@Dr. Frankenkeister
Always good to see a fellow fan. I hope you checked out the trailer. Among other things shown, that wide shot of Reggie going into total white is flipping amazing.
It’s very difficult to believe Phantasm IV : Oblivion was released back in 1998.
It will be so cool to see the cast again.
The Tall Man/Phantasm has been absent (1998) for just slightly longer than MST3K (1999).
If a rebooted MST3K ever used “guest hosts” then Bruce Dern would be excellent. He would keep calling Tom and Crow “Huey” and “Dewey.”
When Gypsy appeared, Bruce would say, “Louie, I thought you were dead.”
hahaha
I don’t see any reason why Joel shouldn’t be the host of the reboot. He’s stated that his biggest regret is leaving the show – now is the perfect time for him to reclaim his place as host. He hasn’t lost a step, as evidenced by Cinematic Titanic, and the fans would absolutely love it as opposed to being anxious and wary of a new host.
If this happens, I’d love to see it done with a rotating series of hosts – Every few episodes (or however long a someone is available) a new comedian is shanghaied, shot into space, and later returned to earth as a manchurian candidate to spread mediocrity. This could keep things fresh, and allow for Mike and Joel to make occasional return appearances.
There’s a long list of people who could make great MST hosts (Weird Al, anyone?), but I’m with the poster above who hopes for a woman to take the reins. Maria Bamford, Kristen Schall, and Tig Notaro would be at the top of my list.
I’ve always been of the mindset that MST3K should continue with new casts every few years, much like SNL. This coming from a guy who’s not that big of a fan of the Sci-Fi era. But I appreciate it all.
Maybe Jay Leno can move in Deep 13 and send David Letterman movies on the new SOL, now that both of them have plenty of free time… :)
Well, we do know from what Pearl said in #801 that Dr. F went back to his mad scientist ways. There has to be a backup Satellite of Love around the Gizmonic Institute somewhere? NASA had two Skylabs. ;)
It would be cool if there were open auditions or something.
I love the idea of MST4K but, as I always do, I worry about the worst case scenario, which to me would be a show on Hulu with two minutes of the same commercial every three minutes, hosted by Justin Beiber, the bot puppets replaced by farting CGI monstrosities, lots of mugging to the camera to let you know how funny they are, and the movies are replaced with cat videos from YouTube. Actually, I would put up with any of that as long as it was funny. Except for Hulu. If it goes to Hulu I’m out, period.
I’m hoping for anything with creative, goofy host segments with goofy movies and goofy riffs, toned down a bit from Rifftrax. Also, no icky R movies unless edited down. Some B&W’s would be great. In addition, please don’t make it political. And a vague story arc would be nice also, but not nearly as restrictive as what happened on Sci-fi. You know, like Joel-era MST3K. Also, I want to decide who lives and dies. What? You don’t know about that?
@64 Pantalones
Yes, because with Joel involved, that’s an incredibly reasonable thing to believe could happen.
#62
The Doctor Who reincarnation has worked well with their continued theme of
gradually changing Doctors and Companions. I believe it’s up to the 8th new season.
Great article…I have a huge (yes, I`M HUGE!) compilation scrapbook of MST articles and the like, culled from every source I have ever come across and amongst the magazine articles and newspaper snippits, this will be the latest valued addition.
The only glaring flaw I saw in this was where the opening rundown wherein the article refers to ‘Hodgson leaving the show just a few years into it`s run’… Joel was there for just under HALF the entire series run–hardly ‘just a few years into’ it. That the article delivers that ‘just a few years’ statement and then almost immediately quantifies Joel as ‘(creator, writer-producer, host 1988-1993)’ amazes me that no proofreader did the math and realised that FIVE YEARS tenure on a show that ran for 11 is a wee bit beyond ‘just a few years into it`s run’….
Ahh well, that`s Life…No attention to Art (No–Not Crow)
As for the whole MST revival concept that has everyone so agogg and enraptured…. Everyone here has already said everything I could add, so I`ll just wait and see if it actually happens.
I would guess that “online” = “netflix” Its kind of the thing to do. Trailer Park boys just got its reboot- netflix exclusive. I agree with the comments about acursed Hulu commercials- I would guess that a reputable pay service (i.e. amazon/netflix/google play) or self produced on their own site (rifftrax).
My biggest question would be would they still keep it pg/pg-13. I mean the main fanbase is adults now. would they still write the show on the two tier humor system as before ;) I’ll give any reboot a try- Maybe they would get some of the icwxp folks involved?
@Luther Heggs
Oh, I hunted down that trailer immediately and I loved it. I know…1998. Man, we fans are getting old! I did get goosebumps seeing Reggie in that white room with The Tall Man. I’m just glad they did this while all concerned are still with us, especially Angus.
I mean Baldwin is over 50 now. That just floors me. And the ‘Cuda too? Now I actually have a new movie that I want to see from,a franchise that really hasn’t disappointed me. Frankly if they ended it on OblIVion, I would have been okay with that. But this is just beyond sweet.
#67
Doctor Who originally was a show with great stories on a low budget. The reboot worked there because the budget now matches the storytelling. MST3K can’t expect to do the same thing Doctor Who did and work because the show’s appeal is different.
Great read. Am I the only one who is just always irritated whenever Mallon speaks? He always sounds like he has no concept that it was Joel’s show and that he only owns (owned? Does he own more now?) 50% of it becauce Joel gave it to him. Also really interesting bit on why Trace left (not being able to make new material with his friends), I had never heard that before.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that Mike needs to be involved. Its just a matter of convincing him to leave his on profitable enterprise where he’s his own boss. No easy task. I think the only way Joel could get him in is if he gave Mike a portion of the rights to “MST3K”, promised residuals, made him an executive producer or some combination of those 3.
But, I guess it all depends on how its being distributed, who’s paying for it, and how many shows they plan on doing. The article mentions “this spring”, which is now, so hopefully we find out soon.
I see a little silhouette-a on the screen,
GOTTA WATCH GOTTA WATCH, CAN YOU DO THE EL SANTO?
Torgo and rock climbing, very very ‘xciting me.
Mr. Beardsley, MR. BEARDSLEY, Mr. Beardsley John Agar -ar-ar-ar-ar-ar-ar…
B Natural has a trumpet put aside for me, for me, for MEEEEE…
@Pantalones (#64)
I love that name MST4K.
I talked about it with others at a different place. I don’t know if I like the idea of a reboot. Futurama restart and Arrested Development Season 4 haven’t really gone as well as I would have hoped. I think those shows worked well before and didn’t work well after because they were trying to capture a mood and style and humor that came naturally years before they restarted. The restart tried to do the same thing and it didn’t work as well.
Rifftrax and CT at least have kept it going for a while, but I really only trust those comedians to do this. There are others I watch in different venues (Retsupurae pretty much does MST3K to video game playthroughs on YouTube, and is funny in a very different way) but I don’t know if those new people would have the same sensibilities as these 80s era, Midwest comedians. Just my two cents.
Mike, Kevin and Bill have earned their success with Rifftrax. They’ve been putting in the time since MST3K’s cancellation, working together on high caliber yet ill-fated lampoonery projects like Edward the Less, TimmyBigHands.com, The Film Crew (which you’ll recall was at one point going to do an NPR radio show, and whose untimely disbandment reportedly may have had something to do with Mallon), and then finally their association with Legend Films from which they eventually purchased the Rifftrax rights. In terms of generating riffing content, I think that trio has far surpassed the CT team at this point.
What could BBI offer those guys? Mallon signing over some percentage of the profits does not sound in character, and besides, would it even be worth their while? While I actually consider a reincarnation of MST3K to be plausible from a business standpoint, profit isn’t really going to be turned if the pie got split the number of ways that, in my opinion, it in all fairness should. It’s still bananas to me that Kevin, Trace and Mike (supposedly) were never entitled to MST3K royalties.
@75 Skiptastic
I actually found Arrested Development Season 4 to be really daring and brilliant (in other words, perfectly worthy of the brand). It changed the format of the show, and so the result is of course different, but I don’t know that it’s inferior. It’s so dense I’m kind of still unpacking it, honestly, but I really think it’s going to hold up. And whether you dug it or not, the sheer ambition on display made it the complete opposite of a hack job. I’m going to have to call that a really bad example of the point you’re trying to make from a quality standpoint – also, I doubt they’d change MST3K’s format. I would defeat the purpose of a revival in a world where Rifftrax exists.
Also, I didn’t catch the Futurama resurrection, but wasn’t that pretty well-received? I feel like there are way more damming examples available to you.
@65 Yeah, Joel was never political. From Human Duplicators which I’m watching in the background:
“The few who have everything the rest who have nothing…”
Joel:”Sounds like the Reagan/Bush administration.”
As for Jim signing over a percentage of the rights not being in character, he did recently become a professional therapist. So…he should know the value of letting things go, healing old wounds and fairness. Hopefully…
@75 Skiptastic: I totally agree with you. I found the Futurama reboot generally a poor imitation of what came before even though it seemed like they had all the same writers and cast members. I think the Arrested Development Netflix season could have been good but Netflix was obviously cheaping out by only having two of the ensemble cast members per episode. I don’t think it worked well at all.
As for MST coming back, I just don’t think it would be the same show without the same cast. I really wonder how the bots fit in, that was the huge thing for me that separated MST from CT and Rifftrax. The robots have their own characters and it might be funnier for Servo to say a line than for Crow to say a line. With Rifftrax and CT, we really don’t have much of a sense of the riffers characters since they are all offscreen and aren’t really onscreen characters at all.
While I can understand some apprehension by some fans for re-booting the series, look at it this way. When the re-boot begins airing/becomes available for download/starts streaming, you can run through the TV listings….Here Comes Honey Boo Boo….Dance Moms…..Dancing with the Stars….The Voice….Pawn Stars…..Chef Ramsey yelling at people…..everything on NBC, or you can pop on the retooled MST4K, and even if it’s not quite on par with MST3K, you are still much, much better off and being entertained for a couple hours.
@78 JCC: Yes, there were occasional riffs like that (and a few skits), but only as many as those that were devoted to hundreds of other subjects. I’m just saying, keep the new show fun. Shouldn’t have used the buzzword on the board. Overall (forgetting my use of the p word), I’m hoping it would be something kids watch without overwhelming, biting sarcasm.
I would say the Futurama revival was okay, the problem just being that unlike the Fox seasons there were outright bad episodes (the Leela & Amy steroid ep, for example) whereas at worst on Fox they just had meh episodes. Probably would have happened anyway. YMMV.
Shout just posted this to their MST3K Facebook page:
Call me suspicious, but I remember that before the new Netflix season of Arrested Development was officially announced, their Facebook page started asking questions similar to this. Deja vu? :O
Boy, Jim Mallon just never looks good during these retrospectives. I like the 50/50 comment Joel made followed by Jim’s announcement that he was directing the movie. I can see where the talent would get disgruntled about that. I always have this mental image of JM coming down to the writers room and offering a few riffs and just have it met with deadpan stares.
To be fair to Jim, he was listed as a writer from KTMA to early Season 3 and a contributing writer from then to 802.
I’ve always had the impression that things were fairly copacetic with Mallon until the movie became a serious thing. Even if there was tension, it was part of the natural work environment. The movie brought those things to a head.
And it absolutely sucks that Frank gets nothing from his years on the show.
@ 87 – Erik, I agree and hate that Frank doesn’t get a piece of the MST3K pie, I figured he was getting at least something for the DVD sales.
Maybe it will be motivation for him to get back in the studio for a re-tooled series?
“And it absolutely sucks that Frank gets nothing from his years on the show.”
That’s a good reason why Frank should consistently mention CT and make sure that ALL recorded episodes of Cinematic Titanic are made available and kept in print on DVD and as digital downloads at all times – assuming he has part of that pie.
Oh, and while WIRED dropped the ball about lead, and understated Joel’s episode count, I have to say that photo of Joel and the bots was outstanding.
er, that should have said “about what should lead”
(Correction time window…too small.
Must -gasp- watch…typos. Help me, Spock.)
Joel is weird, which results in creativity. Whatever he decides to do, I’m sure I’ll find it charming and fun. I came to this article only yesterday, let me belatedly echo the enthusiasm that has been previously expressed! :D
Good article. It adds some intriguing details to some of the major events I was already aware of, and it’s exciting to hear that MST3K may be coming back in some capacity. I would have liked to hear a lot more from Josh Weinstein, though. I liked his tweet on 4/22, linking to the article:
As I noted before, I’m cautiously optimistic about an MST3K revival. I just hope that anyone from the original group who wants to be involved will do so, that those who can’t or won’t get involved will at least give it their blessing, and that the final result works out OK.
As for any disputes within the group, I hope they’re settled amicably. We certainly don’t need an Eon vs. McClory situation here, and life’s too short to hold grudges.
Imagine how many disputes they would have had in evil Hollywood.
Good thing they were in the Minnesota Neutral Zone where everyone nurtures everyone else with brotherly love.
Now hand me that damn puppet.
(I amuse myself here.)
Doesn’t any new incarnation of mst3k need Jim Mallon’s approval? Wouldn’t it require some effort, something that I hate to say he has in the past 15 years been unwilling to put out?
Yes, anything officially MST3K related would require his approval, including last year’s Turkey Day marathon. We have to assume that much is assured for Joel to even be talking about this.
@ 70 – Dr. Frankenkeister says:
Frankly if they ended it on OblIVion, I would have been okay with that. But this is just beyond sweet.
I agree. OblIVion was a “come full circle, snake eat tail” masterpiece. Especially so because of the utilization of mint unused footage from the 1979 original.
At the same time, I’ve been patiently waiting for and believing in a number five. Now that it has happened, I simply cannot believe it. Last time I saw part of the crew was at Phantasmania in Austin on April Fool’s weekend, year 2000.
Feels like only about a year ago. It really does.
It’s never over.
Again, I can’t overstate this enough: if Joel is going to reboot MST, I pray that he or Mike will be the host, Trace or Bill will be Crow and Kevin (let’s face it, he was the definitive Servo) will be Tom. And, of course, that Frank is back. It’s not that I’m averse to change…I love both Joel and Mike and both Trace and Bill (although I loathe the Pearl character with every fiber of my being)…..it’s just that these guys are still here, they’re still hilarious and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be the ones to perform as their iconic character. When they’re not here or past their prime, OK….turn over the show to a new generation….but, as Rifftrax and CT proved, they’re still every bit as winning and hilarious as ever.
Totally down with a new host and totally new cast…as long as the mythology is kept intact!
Reviving the experiment for the new millennium! Ruling the world is a whole new ballgame!
Apparently, a fully expanded version was posted online a few hours ago: