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Slashdot Q&A with JoelBack in November, Slashdot asked its readers to submit questions for Joel Hodgson. His responses have finally been posted. It appears some of the more hardcore readers over there have taken offense to him being against trading copyrighted content.
45 Replies to “Slashdot Q&A with Joel”Commenting at Satellite News
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Joel is good. I chomp pirate jerks on head.
I have found myself looking forward to dinosaur’s posts……..what is wrong with me???? :wink:
Joel didn’t seem to have any problems with people watching KTMA. I liked that detail.
(PS–Yeah, I’m strangely drawn to Dinosaur’s posts as well. So at least you’re not alone.)
This interview with Joel explains a LOT to us fans who for years have wondered exactly what was going on with Joel leaving the show. I’ve been a huge fan of MST3K since I first saw it during season 2, but unlike some people, I haven’t spent a lot of time on forums, chats, blogs, etc. obsessively learning about what goes on behind the scenes, so like a lot of fans I’ve been mystified up to this point about Joel leaving and about why there’s been no attempt to revive actual MST3K now that Joel is free from other projects. Joel’s answer in this interview clears all that up.
Wow, it is really a shame that Jim Mallon ended up with control over the show’s content and not Joel Hodgson. Imagine what Joel H. would be producing now if he was the one with control over the show’s name, puppets, and other IP (intellectual property). At least CT is some consolation.
Is this the first Joel has officially commented on his real reason for leaving the show? Was it known by insiders like the Satellite News crew?
I never bought the “time for something new” explanation.
I wonder who it was that he was getting into arguments with. Mallon, maybe?
I didn’t see anything in there that materially differed what he said to The Onion back in 1999:
O: Was it strange being back on the show this year?
JH: Yeah, it was really strange. In some regards, it didn’t feel like any time had gone by once we were shooting it. But it just seemed smaller than I remembered it, and I also kept thinking about what kind of person I would be if I would have stayed.
O: Did you come up with any answers?
JH: I just wouldn’t have been happy, I don’t think.
O: Was it the movie that made you leave?
JH: The big thing is that Jim Mallon and I were kind of fighting over creative control of the show. And it just got too hard. You can’t really be fighting with someone and doing all the stuff you have to do. I think what made the show work for me was that I really loved it. I really liked the audience, and the whole process was… I was really happy doing it, and I realized that I’d turn into Jerry Lewis or something if I started to kind of hate it. And that was starting to happen, just because of these conflicts I was having internally with Jim. I had a pretty good deal set up, so if I left, it would be okay. If Jim wanted to run the show his way and it succeeded, I would make money on it. And if it didn’t work, that would be okay, too. It was just kind of the way to do it. The thing would have blown up if we both would have stayed there. I like to look at it like the story of King Solomon, when the baby was brought before him. [Laughs.]
It was nice to see him admit that he was putting a nice face on it, though. Telling people he had things to do when he really didn’t.
Thanks “Philip Frey aka “Rhindle the Red” for that. As you note, nothing Joel said about this topic in this interview is new to anybody who’s been paying attention. It’s just that until CT emerged, almost nobody was paying attention.
I’d just like to make three points:
1. Let’s keep this in perspective. Creative differences are common in show business. It’s fun to find out juicy gossip, but let’s not make more of this than it deserves. Joel himself pointed out the big picture: The show survived and thrived and the essence of Joel’s vision was carried on. It was never “The Joel Hodgson Show”–it was an ensemble, and the ensemble continued to do terrific work.
2. There are two truths in any dispute and there are no villains in this story. There are only people who believed they were doing what they thought was right. We’re talking about a private difference of opinion between two parties. What we have now is one party who is gingerly giving a little information because he’s been directly asked, and one party who’s declined to discuss the matter. You’re welcome to think that’s enough information to draw a fair conclusion if you like. We don’t.
3. It’s just a show, you should really just relax. Quite frankly, the only people who have a right to feel any strong emotion about this are people who were drawing a Best Brains paycheck. Affection and admiration for a TV performer is one thing, but when it leads you to dislike or even hate a person you’ve never actually met, well, we think that’s a little odd. And, quite frankly, at the point where this backstage gossip stuff distracts from our enjoyment of the on-screen work, that’s where we lose interest.
I really wish we could get a straightforward answer on the Rifftrax/Cinematic Titanic “rivalry.”
I hadn’t seen that interview from The Onion before; it’s a site I’ve rarely visited, so thanks for the excerpt from that interview. Very interesting, although one has to wonder why the guy who started as a small town UHF producer would try to wrestle creative control of the show from the comedic genius who created it. Jim Mallon somehow thinking that he knew better than Joel Hodgson as to what is funny seems kind of “funny”, but not ha-ha funny. It seems a bit odd to say the least.
As for people “paying attention”, my experience is that most people who really enjoy the show (or any show) know little about the inner workings of it, so much of this info now put together here in one place is new to even many “old” fans. For me, if I can find out about something here at a glance on a casual visit, then I know it, but I don’t spend a lot of time gleaning the Internet for every tidbit I can find, nor do most of the other people I know personally who like the show. Most people just watch a show, but spend little time trying to follow what’s going on off-set.
If one looks at many of the reviews of MST3K DVDs at commercial sites like Amazon and other online stores, it’s easy to see that a lot of people buying the MST3K DVDs don’t even know about the Satellite News website, although I’ve done my best to correct that problem with some comments here and there in my Amazon reviews.
I guessed that he ignored the question because it’s a little like asking Kevin “So, what’s Tom Servo doing these days?” He was asked about fictional characters — some who didn’t appear until after he left the show. I might avoid that one as well.
Bob,
Jim Mallon is a bit more than a simple “small town UHF producer”. While in college, he definitely had a firm grasp of “funny”. One may wish to either research or “pay attention” before commenting on how funny one person is compared to another. :neutral:
That being said, he’s certainly no Joel Hodgson and the new MST3K.com site is not what I would call funny either. :mrgreen:
One extra thing: Bill just posted at the Rifftrax blog asking people to knock off the piracy – and specifically referred to CT as “our seafaring friends.”
Not only is it probably safe to say that all so-called “rivalry” is very light-hearted, and professional, they don’t mind having each other’s back.
I’ve heard it said that geography has a lot to do with the fact that the entire gang doesn’t get back together.
For the record, if anyone knows, which members of the cast are living where?
In Mary Jo’s interview she says she’s in Texas, Trace is in Minnesota, Joel, Josh and Frank are in LA. Mike’s in San Diego if I’m not mistaken as that’s where Legend is based. Not sure about Kevin and Bill, think the latter’s in Minnesota, as it appears are Jim and Paul Chaplin unless Best Brains moved at some point.
I stand by my comments and history since Hodgson left the show supports them, especially recent history. I don’t spend a lot of time learning about the personal lives of the cast and producers or how they spent their college years. Nor am I inclined to do so. I like the show, I’m not a fan-boy who spends all his time on this.
I don’t see what the big deal is about Joel’s non-piracy policy. It makes sense to me. The guy wasn’t exactly asking about tape-trading, he was blatantly asking if he could pirate copies of available episodes.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with trading unreleased episodes with the full intent of buying them once they are “officially” released, but downloading episodes currently in release? That I can’t agree with.
So Joel just…refuses to answer any Film Crew/Rifftrax questions? Lame.
Thanks for the info, Trumpysmagicsnout.
First of all I say Hazaa!!! to sampo, I agree with your points 100%.
Most of us write strong opinions. But, I feel that the real “fans” love and embrace Mst3k as a whole, and now the other projects CT, and RT.
clearly there is high and lows of mst3k. What each person prefers……. seasons, channels, which host, etc. But
I enjoy all the years and hosts with equal love
as a whole.
As to the Joel interview, as Sampo said most of the things that were said by Joel is nothing new. I respect Joel a lot to walk away for the show, knowing that it was in good hands with Mike taking over. I Further do not think any creator/business person is going to openly say “yes go forth and pirate my son.”
And the haters that emerged clearly do not understand his eccentric ways,underlying humor, and his sometimes odd view of things. BUT I feel thats what makes him so great as a comic genius.
our purchases keeps the ship afloat for what is hopefully many years of riffing in the future.
So I, myself instead of complaining about the 16$ price point, have purchased extra
copies for gifts to friends and family, if for nothing else to repay the gang for all they gave us from mst3k, and what they will be continuing to give us in the future…
just plain good ol’ fun, watching bad movies and making us laugh uncontrollably time and time again.
who really cares about the rest. Refusing to answer the rifftrax question is typical Joel, anything he says will be picked apart and tossed around. hes taking the high road to stay focused on his project, and leave the hating to
the haters. His goal is promoting CT and continuing the project into the future.
I think it’s pretty clear why the CT and Rifftrax groups are working separately. Economics. Mike moved his family out to California for his content producer job with Legend. There would be no reason for him to quit a full-time job and take a chance on a still-developing freelance project like CT. At the same time, CT has to stay lean and make enough money to become economically viable. They can’t do that by taking on every former writer and staffer that ever worked for BBI. I met Mary Jo Pehl one time and it was pretty clear they’re all good friends. They’re just working on different projects – and that’s a normal thing in the entertainment industry.
Sorry, I know it is heresy for some, but the show was much better once Joel left. The humor was better, the interaction was better, the shows were better. I like the Joel shows, but I think he brought the show down. Once he was out, the show was titanic. Joel should have left earlier (and I am saying that with the utmost respect).
I think if Joel could have stuck around he would have been there as the scripts and interactions improved. I’ve gone back and watched the shows for the evolution of the series and there was certain plot stagnation between year 3 and 4. But they were still HILARIOUS. However the latter shows HAD to adjust with the moving on of Joel, T.V’s Frank, Trace, and the contract cancellation by Comedy Central. Given that there was some real breakout stuff in Seasons 8 and 9.
There’s a certain better feeling I have that none of this seems to be any issues between Joel and Mike. They both cared about the show and it tells in the product. I’m ok with them doing two different things; life has a way of moving on. But just ONE TIME I would like to see them all together at a Con somewhere talking about all of this. Mallon is not invited!
I am sorry Sampo, I disagree. The Joel/Jim rift was not mentioned in most interviews since then, and certainly not any at the time it happened, and I’ve read more than my fair share.
Of course, his leaving sounds like the best thing he could have done under the circumstances, and I don’t think anyone out here in the Peanut Gallery is too terribly fond of Mallon right now. But I don’t know. It is a complicated old world when people have to fight about the fate of a puppet show. (Even if it is a cow-town one.)
Thanks, Sampo. You were right on your first point, I certainly wasn’t aware of Joel’s previous interviews because he’s been out of the spotlight for so long.
I know it’s not really important, but I’ve always wondered what Joel’s percentage in the company became post split. I know some kind of deal was made but originally it was something like: Joel and Jim 45% each with the remaining 10 split between Mike, Trace and Kevin. Which is why it was suprising to me when Mike mentioned that he gets nothing from the DVDs. Unless he means that since it’s so small, it doesnt amount to much for them. (Mike, Kevin, etc.)
Always good to hear from Joel…
I would hazard a guess as to why he won’t comment on Rifftrax or the other efforts of Mike, Kevin and Bill: He is kind of competing with them and would not want to mention them at all really. Not to mention that the existence of Rifftrax BEGAT the existence of Cinematic Titanic.
Personally I wish he’d made more “TV Wheel” rather than a half-hearted return to MST3K glory. That show was true genius.
@ John Watson: “Not to mention that the existence of Rifftrax BEGAT the existence of Cinematic Titanic.”
There’s no way to prove that. Joel, Trace and Josh first riffed together again in 2005 for the ‘Star Wait’ DVD, well before the launch of Rifftrax. The Film Crew was in existence, but hadn’t done a lot of true “riffing” at that point. Mike had done some of his Legend DVDs, but it was hardly as big as Rifftrax has become.
While it’s easy to believe that Rifftrax played a part in the creation of CT, we don’t *know* that it did.
As a fanatic fan of this show, I really like to know what happened behind the scenes. Actually, how the show developed over the years is a big part of why us dedicated fans love it so much.
In spite of (evidently)personal pain, meddling network executives and cast conflicts, the show survived and arguably improved year-after-year. Creative content was high even through the last episode. Very few television shows can claim that.
Take a look at “Mitchell.” There is no indication of unhappiness or conflict among the crew — just wonderful entertainment for us, the fans.
I’m glad to hear that Joel loved the show and wanted to stay with it, and I’m also glad that it prospered after he left. I am grateful to everyone involved for bringing us such wonderful and durable entertainment for so many years.
“Mike had done some of his Legend DVDs…”
does anyone know if mike will be doing anymore of these? personally, i liked them better than the film crew dvd’s.
@ deviled hampton: “does anyone know if mike will be doing anymore of these?”
My guess would be no. The recent Legend releases that would have been good candidates for this (“Things to Come”, “20 Million Miles to Earth”) were released without a commentary. Of course, “Missile to the Moon” later had a Mike/Fred Willard Rifftrax, but that’s not the same thing.
To Philip Frey,
You can’t equate the singular instance of riffing on “Star Wait” with the ultimate success of Rifftrax.
My point is the commercial success of Rifftrax is the only logical reason Joel and the others even entertained starting CT. It became clear that there was indeed a market out there for this style of entertainment, seemingly radiating beyond the MSTies(devoted nuts that we are).
In any case, I wish all groups great success. MST3K alum deserve no less!
JW
@ John Watson: “You can’t equate the singular instance of riffing on “Star Wait” with the ultimate success of Rifftrax”
Yes, I can. I mean, I think I can. Yes, yes I can.
*whew*
I thought I could!
“the commercial success of Rifftrax is the only logical reason Joel and the others even entertained starting CT”
Do you know how long ago Joel started putting CT together? Could he not have entertained the idea based on the same things that caused Mike to entertain his idea, a desire to create a quality work?
My whole point about “Star Wait” was that without a first hand account to the contrary, it is just as logical to think that the experience of riffing with Josh and Trace inspired CT as it is to assume that the success of Rifftrax did.
CT is a significant undertaking and I’m not sure that it could have all been pulled together in the time since Rifftrax really started to get going.
The bottom line is that neither you nor I know what inspired CT. You cannot just assume it was Rifftrax.
Other than that, I’m with you and wish the best for one and all.
I am sure someone is going to ask them about Rifftrax at the MPLS show in a couple weeks.
@Philip Prey : “The bottom line is that neither you nor I know what inspired CT. You cannot just assume it was Rifftrax.”
Yes I can…infinity! So there!
JW
“Yes I can…infinity! So there!”
Allright, ya got me. :roll:
The latest CT email seems to debunk the (as Josh puts it) “Riff’t” theory:
“A note on the SlashDot interview: It has come to our attention that a certain unanswered question (posted as unanswered by the editor) has caused rampant online speculation of a “Riff’t” within the MST3k alumni community. This is not the case. In fact, I just saw Joel yesterday and the last thing he said was “Hey, if you see Rifftrax, say ‘hi’”.”
Interesting. In the end it looks like all can get along nicely. Which makes sense since they all did at one point in the not-to-distant past!
Thanks for the update!
JW
I realized a while after my last post here that the person who felt the need to attack me personally above while expressing their own opinion about Jim Mallon vs. Joel Hodgson must have been talking about Mallon’s Statue of Liberty “prank” and other gags, which thanks to Satellite News I did read about a few years ago.
First, let me saty that knowledge of those “hilarious college gags” does nothing to change my opinion that the comic genius who created the show, Joel Hodgson, was unduly pushed out by the (yes I’ll say it again) small town UHF producer who thought he knew better. It’s a crime that Mallon didn’t leave instead of Hodgson under those sad circumstances. If one of them had to go, perhaps everyone concerned would have been better off if Hodgson had stayed, although I think it’s a shame that such in-fighting forced anyone to leave the show at all. Besides losing the wonderful comedy writing and performing of Hodgson, the show probably did lose some viewers at the time due to the cast change and Comedy Central did, truthfully or not, cite the cast change as weakening the show when the begain its bad treatment after the 3-year contract ended.
Second, I have my opinion and so does everyone else here, Mr. “If at all possible, involve a cow”, I know as much about the show as most “MSTies” and more than many, though not as much as some I’m sure. But unless you have personal contact with the cast members like the kind people who run this site, try expressing your opinion without being rude or denigrating others or getting your exercise jumping to conclusions about what others may or may not know, lest you end up with egg on your own face.
Finally, thanks again, Chris (Sampo) for providing this wonderful website where fans of the show will always know about the latest project releases from (sadly) former cast members or great new DVD releases of MST3K episodes. I already ordered my Giant Gila Monster episode DVD tonight!
Generally I do not post on blogs, but I would like to say that this post really forced me to do so! really nice post.
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