.JPG)
211- First Spaceship on Venus
706- Laserblast
904- Werewolf
1004- Future War
Incidentally, this counts as the weekend discussion thread.
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The Episodes for the 20th Anniversary Collection Are…
279 Replies to “The Episodes for the 20th Anniversary Collection Are…”Commenting at Satellite News
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@ 94 through 97
Yes, yes, I suppose you’re right. I just get royally irked when I read again and again and again how disappointed people are and very little in the way of “Hurray! More cake of ANY kind!”
Of course no set will satisfy everybody. I don’t expect it to. I also have no problem with people expressing what they would like SF to release. I also understand when people explain why they are disappointed with various aspects of a given release. I just don’t think it’s fair to heap so much criticism on this release. Did SF really over-hype it? Or is it more likely that some fans built up their own expectations to an unreasonable level, one that could never be met. I get the feeling, and this is purely my opinion, that if the “extras” included anything less than the first three missing KTMA episodes, people would call this a failure. I strongly feel that a special tin box, a figurine, and more video extras than all previous 12 Rhino releases combined qualifies as a VERY special homage to 20 years of MST3K.
All I’m saying is, how about a little more appreciation and less hating?
I’ll get off my soapbox now :neutral:
I agree with most: while the set is good, it should have been some milestones in the show’s history. Perhaps 201, either 523 or 624, 706, and either 1001 or 1013. Still, that leaves only one Joel, but I think all the “milestone” Joel shows are already released, right? I mean, let’s face it – nothing major happened throughout seasons 2 thru 4. They just hung around, inventing stuff and being awesome. With the aformentioned episodes, we’d get the intro to Frank, either “The Greatest Frank of All” or “Whom Will I Kill?”, Laserblast, and either Frank and Joel’s return or the finale.
…I think I really like Frank.
Still, we’ll all be picking this up, won’t we?
Oh well – disappointing from a personal perspective, but I’m sure it’ll sell well. I wish we had a clearer idea of what the rights issues were like these days though – there is a *lot* of good Joel era stuff – is it absent because of rights, or because they reckon the SF Channel stuff sells better? I’m guessing Volume 10 and G vs M has pretty much eliminated any chance of any Sandy Frank stuff ever making an appearance – a shame because that’s largely Joel-era stuff that would have a good deal of appeal for those used to the days of “it has to be an SF movie” – but there’s still a lot of non-SF that would be nice to have (the Russo-Finnish movies, Master Ninja)
It’ll take a few sets to show whether or not Shout is actually going to deliver the goods – I’m not going to judge them based on one box. Oh well, at least I don’t have to worry about whether or not I’ll be able to afford this one or not.
Al
Aw c’mon girls! You’re ALL pretty.
Me, I want to know more about these extras.
You guys say, “A CROW figure?” Really? or is that someone’s idea of a cruel joke? Cause it ain’t funny.”
I do find it amusing how fast we’ve turned on Shout Factory.
I never thought Shout Factory was going to include any milestone episodes in the 20th Anniversary Set (getting rights to bad movies is hard), so I was definitely pleasantly surprised to see Laserblast listed, along with Future War and Werewolf, two of my all time favorite episodes.
So, I’m happier than I thought I’d be.
I guess it is kind of a dissapiontment when it comes to extras. Rhinos extras were always really good (when they had them). But its got three of the best episodes ever. Rhino, Shout factory, Hell FOX home video its still a nice release.
Oh and anyone out there who thinks future war is mediocre or lame, Do us a favor and seek professional help.
“Did SF really over-hype it?”
Yes. Here is a sampling of Brian Ward’s hype from the Shout boards:
* Says he owns all the Rhino sets and is disappointed with them
* “as far as we’re concerned, it will be the first set done right”
* “MSTies will not be disappointed.”
* “we’re looking at films from both Joel and Mike”
* “we’re not relying strictly on the comfort and convenience of the public domain”
* “You guys are in for a treat. Seriously, this is how MST3K was meant to be treated!”
The impressive-sounding “20th Anniversary Edition” label certainly doesn’t help.
_________
“more video extras than all previous 12 Rhino releases combined”
Not true. While Rhino boxes were in general light on extras, at some point or another they had most of the pieces which would justify a fantastic set:
Interview with the Brains (Vol. 5)
Introductions to each episode (Vol. 4 and 5)
Interviews with original filmmakers (Vol. 9-12)
Reunion skit done fully in-character (Vol. 10.2)
Original film trailers (Vol. 1, 4-5, 11-12)
Uncut original films (Vol. 1)
Rereleases of OOP BBI exclusive tapes (Vol. 7)
MST Hour intros (Vol. 11 and 12)
Outtakes (Vol. 3 and 10)
Behind-the-scenes photos (Vol. 10)
vs.
Reunion panel
History of MST3k Featurette w/Cast interviews
Original trailers
If this was just another release it would be fine, but since they are touting it as the big “20th Anniversary Collection” it’s kind of a confusing selection. That being said I’ll be very happy with my purchase anyway, as any new MST episodes released on DVD are a gift from the Holy Space Master of Zethor. So this set isn’t a disappointment any more than it would be if it was a theoretical “volume 13” from Rhino, it’s just a little confusing given the whole “20th Anniversary Collection” label they have chosen to put on it. No one could be blamed for expecting something a little more special under that banner.
Not a bad set, but I would love to see either Pumaman (which someone else mentioned) or Quest of the Delta Knights. Oh and Final Sacrifice, which another writer mentioned earlier, would be awesome as well (How can you miss with a hero named Zap Rowsdower!). I agree that any product is better than no product, so I will buy the set when it comes out.
Sucks big time.
Well, I guess we can say Shout Factory’s honeymoon is officially over. :mrgreen:
Oh and to Al Crawford…
It wasn’t Sandy Frank that kept Godzilla out of Volume 10. It was Toho, the original Japanese film company who owns the rights to Godzilla.
We can’t really make judgments until we get the actual set. You know, open with our grubby little fan-boy mits! Sweating anxiously with every tear of factory sealed plastic wrap. Yeah, you know what I’m talking about . . .
Sure, episodes may not be KEY episodes, but once you get the set, opening it up and seeing all the fun packaging and bells and whistles, not to mention that Crow figure. I mean, that’s enough to put a smile on your face.
Plus, the extras! I mean, original trailers are nothing that I’d personally like to write home about, but the history of Mst3k featurette with cast interviews, how do we know that that’s not like 3 or 4 hours long? Maybe there’s an extras disk. Who knows? And the reunion panel. I really liked the interview on Volume 5. This set will probably have loads of stuff cast and crew thoughts and comments.
One thing I’ll really miss that Rhino did well was the packaging and disk art – especially for the later sets (8-12). They were really creative. I know, who cares about packaging, well . . . I do.
I, too am a bit disappointed. I would have liked to have seen at least 2 Joel episodes. But the extras will be good.
The line-up is great for a “Volume 13” set…but it isn’t that good for an Anniversary set. Sure it has bonuses, but if you are doing a set that celebrates 20 years of MST3K, then you should at least have it 2 Joel/2 Mikes instead of favoring one person.
Also, the Joel episode is kind of weak IMO. The Mike episodes are great though, which continues to point towards Mike favorism.
I’m still buying the set, but it isn’t a 20th Anniversary set in my eyes. PLENTY should have been done to make a great 20th Anniversary set. It’s kind of sad when fans can think up ideas for what an Anniversary set should have, and the company behind it fails.
Obviously the one called Grow Up should follow his own name, with all that bold and caps what a drama queen
YOU SIR & I use that term loosely are the one who just doesnt get it. Thank God comments from 94 and on seem to explain that.
This is not a historical set based on the shows they picked except for Laserblast. They are all good episodes, except for the lousy Joel one that was chosen to represent a Joel Era..If they couldnt do the Crawling Eye or Rocketship XM which are only 2 of left, god knows why they couldnt get them, couldnt they have picked Rocket Attack USA or Master Ninja or a Lippert Film. Its a misrepresentation for a so-called ground breaking set. It will be a nice set, but its not the historical set a lot of us thought could and would happen. The original Volume 10 still blows this away :)
Rhino did get a Godzilla title to us :)
You know what? Count me in on the side of people who are excited about this release.
Does it live up to all the hype? Well…no…but then, what really ever does? Even with the meant-to-stir-excitement promotion by Brian Ward by calling this the 20th Anniversary Set to the side – come on, no matter what this set contained, someone somewhere was going to grouse about the fact that it wasn’t representative of the full two decades of MST3K and/or that it didn’t contain Episode “X” that was a milestone of the show.
No, in my opinion, the episodes in the set aren’t really that milestone-ish (save for “Laserblast”). Yes, the argument could be made that this release could have been more special by adding in some more extras (my Crow figure will eventually get lonely – can we show some lovin’ for Tom and have another figure soon? :smile: ).
Me? I’m just glad that (a) the DVD license was picked up by a company that at least SAYS they care, (b) the DVD license was picked up by a company that is spearheaded by someone who is a self-avowed fan of the show, and (c) the DVD license was picked up by a company that will more than likely read what we have stated in terms of our disappointment about this release and may in fact take this into account for future releases by looking at the episodes and extras asked for and adding them in, either on-line or in new releases. (You know, like – in case anyone’s keeping score – the Russo-Finnish movies, FINAL SACRIFICE…)
I mean, who’s to say that Shout! Factory’s celebration of the 20th anniversary is limited to just one box set release…?
Only 2 Joel KEY episodes left is what I meant up there..
I bet the crow figure will be made of silly putty or bread dough or pretzel sticks LOL
SIGH :sad:
There’s cake?
All histrionics aside, GrownUps point is well taken. There is a whole lot of negativity surrounding what should be a happy time. More MST3K?!? Wheeee!!! :grin: :grin:
Naw, Shout built this up too much to deserve a completly unqualified high five for releasing just anything.
I want them to release everything, not just the greatest hits, but if you make something look like it’s going to special then try to make it special. This, not to beat my dead horse, is just another Rhinoish release.
I think I went a little easy on them in my post last night. You just don’t release only one Joel ep and have it be one of his weakest ever on an anniversary set. It makes no sense. They couldn’t get “Girl in Lover’s Lane”? or even “Jungle Goddess?”
If they had had one of those I’d say it was a pretty decent set.
Eh, its a decent set. Two great (Laserblast, Werewolf) one good (Future War) and one meh (First Spaceship). Its exactly like one of the Rhino sets in terms of episode makeup, considering you would think they’d unload all the best episodes in one go. One of the complications of this whole non-season compilation thing is you gotta find a way to sell the episodes that people aren’t terribly excited about buying.
The extras are probably what’s going to bring in the “special edition” part, and we don’t even know what they all are. From what the sound like, the interviews are going to be far more substantial than those provided on the scanter Rhino sets, and I’m sure this’ll still be one of the better sets.
Fan internet whining is annoying.
I gain one episode I’ve never seen. Still no sign of Season 3 or 6 episodes. Sigh.
Randy
Woot woot! Great set of episodes, all of which were likely-to-extremely likely on my Likelihood For Release List (except for FIRST SPACESHIP ON VENUS, which was a nice surprise). All of the announced extras sound awesome, especially the Crow figure!!
This set appeals to Mike and scifi fans which is most of the fan base these days, since most older members moved on (speculation only) but its not groundbreaking at all
Didn’t we know this was going to happen? Everyone had such unrealistic expectations for the episode selection that there was no way anyone with specific wants could be happy. To me, an MST episode is an MST episode. There is something special to every one of them, even Jack Frost. Sure, there could be episodes that mean more than others, but I doubt Shout went into this looking for the easiest eps to get. Would they really blow this chance by half-assing their releases?
And who HONESTLY felt we were going to get a KTMA episode? Especially after Jim stated that he just saw the tapes the other day and maybe he will do something with them for the website. That clearly show he has NO intention of letting them out to Shout! We still know what Jim is all about.
Shouldn’t we be more upset about the treatment of extras? It is going to be great to have the panel and new interviews but that’s it? What about the HOURS of extra **** the guys did during the ten years that Rhino ignored and now Shout may be ignoring? People put a lot of work together for years to collect episode promos, turkey day bumpers, and the hordes of other stuff and we know there is even more we haven’t seen! Why aren’t these being put out? Even one Turkey day run in a set would be a delightful touch. And I have always thought it was unacceptable for any episode to be put on disk without the promos. Those were as good as the episodes themselves. It seems that no one in the position to include this stuff even thinks about it.
It’s really very simple. If you don’t like what’s being offered in the set, DON’T BUY IT.
I agree with Teddy.
MORE EXTRAS PLEASE!!!
Most of us have seen all the episodes, or most of the episodes anyway.
I want more special extras: MST 60 min. segments, promos, etc.
It stinks !
:twisted:
I can see the point of people who are saying that Shout Factory made a mistake by building anticipation (by labeling it a “20th Anniversary Edition” and by making a “big announcement” about which titles would be included–hint to the fine folks at Shout, when you announce you’ll be announcing something, you’re probably overhyping. :) )
But on the other hand, if this set had been ‘Werewolf’ and three decorative coasters, I’d be buying it. :) Seriously, I can’t be too unhappy with any set that includes one of my favorite unreleased films, and as to what they didn’t release, well…that’s what future sets are for.
Geez – some people will b***h about a b*****b…you’re getting some fresh commercial quality episodes on DVD (plus a few extra goodies)…quit yer whining already.
@ Happy (#126… doesn’t seem so happy to me)
I started watching the show just before season 2, back when ComCen was The Comedy Channel (and actually played things like Alien From LA UNriffed)… While I love Joel and the “Joel-Era”, I will admit that yes, I do prefer Mike, but ONLY because it’s more my style of humour. It’s not because I am young (which I am not), and it’s not because I haven’t seen Joel (which I have), and it’s not because I forgot how funny Joel is (which I haven’t, and he is)…
But you consistantly lump “Mike” into “SciFi”… there were about as many episodes with Mike on ComCen as there were on SciFi. I think I may be alone in loving the Mike/ComCen era best, but that doesn’t mean I even remotely dislike Joel or even the later SciFi stuff.
Also, why only focus on the amount of Mike and Joel episodes?? There are other people on the show. Trace as Dr. F/Crow, Bill as Crow/Observer, Josh as Tom/Dr E, Frank as Frank, Mary Jo as Pearl (both season 7 AND SciFi), Kevin as Tom/Bobo… hell, the voices of Gypsy and Magic Voice were done by different people in different eras, and ya know what…
They didn’t all change at the same time. By simply focusing on Joel/Mike, you really are excluding EVERYONE else that rotated characters on the show.
Try finding only 4 episodes that you consider “key” that will correctly have at least one of EVERYBODY in their respective roles. That should keep you busy.
On a note of agreement, I would actually LOVE to see more Joel episodes… just stop claiming that all the Mike fans haven’t seen any, or simply don’t like, the Joel-Era episodes. I love them ALL.
Unabeefer #133:
Best comment….ever.
To be fair to Shout Factory, they’re really not known for copious bonus material. Off the top of my head, the two Judd Apatow shows (Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared) and Home Movies are really the only sets they’ve done that overwhelm you with extra features. Shout Factory’s more respected for releasing shows that nobody thought would ever be released.
(I love Home Movies!)
I’m a Joel-era fan and I haven’t “moved on”. I would most like to see Joel-era eps that were taken out of rotation because of rights issues when they were still showing them on T.V. Or ones that I only saw once and for some reason didn’t tape. (I started taping this show almost immediately – when my cable company started finally showing Comedy Central). I’m not really fond of the Sci-Fi eps, but I’ll still buy them when they come out. The worst ep of the Sci-Fi years is still better than most of the crap on T.V. these days.
I think, like others said, they’re just spreading the episode around when they can release them.
episodes – plural.
Very happy with this set. I’ve never seen First Spaceship or Laserblast, so I’m looking forward to them. I haven’t seen Werewolf, one of my all time favs, since the show went off the air. Future War does kind of suprise me. A funny episode with a horrible movie, but I didn’t think it was that popular an episode.
My opinion about the “20th Anniversary” episodes. It doesn’t matter what shows were picked. Its MST on DVD, thats what counts.
Is it so important that the front of the package has “20th Anniersary” wriitten on it. It had to be called something.
On thinking about it, I’m grateful to Shout Factory for what they didn’t do–they didn’t release a bunch of “key” episodes I already owned (say, ‘Mitchell’, ‘Brain That Wouldn’t Die’, and ‘Manos’), tack ‘Laserblast’ on there and add a bunch of fancy extras, and justify the colossal scam by saying, “Oh, it’s a 20th Anniversary Set, we wanted to put in ‘important’ episodes.”
Sure, that’s the sort of thing that should be a given for any company that wants to retain the goodwill of its fans, but…well, how many editions of ‘Star Wars’ do you have? :)
Since the show started in 1988, and Rhino didn’t do 12 as a 20th Anniversary Edition, this is the only option for a 20th Anniversary Edition.
Since they are constrained by copyright licensing requirements, SF couldn’t simply pick “the best” (whatever that means) episodes. This is also why we’re not likely to see any of the “Sandy Frank” episodes (i.e, most of Season 3).
There are two ways to define “key” episodes: 1. episodes which advance the plotline of the host segments, and 2. episodes that highlight the comedic talent in the riffing and host segments.
By my reckoning, “LaserBlast” is a prime example of definition 1, and “Werewolf” is one of the best examples of definition 2. Most likely, that’s why these two are on there, and the other two episodes were included based on what SF could get the rights to in time.
While my personal view of the show is that the host segments’ “plotline” was merely a contrivance to give the network suits something to fiddle with and to deal with changes in personnel, it was still developed well enough to make definition 1 a valid viewpoint. (I have still not seen all of season 7 and the transition from ape-world to the brain guys, and the holes in the story do gnaw at me ; )
Because of the licensing restrictions, the only way for SF to really make sure this set is special is with special features (perhaps a full fifth disc?). Not knowing what those all are (and hoping that given recent talk one may be some or all host segments from Season 0…) I’ll reserve my judgement until I get the set.
Note that I didn’t include the Crow figurine as one of the Anniversary features. That’s because I’m hoping SF will continue to include other figurines in the upcoming sets. You hear me SF? I WANT MY TOM SERVO!
HMMM… Notes for a MST3k “Franklin Mint”-style chess set:
W King: Joel
W Queen: Mike
W Bishops: Tom & Crow
W Knights: Gypsy & Cambot
W Rooks: SOL (KTMA and Cable versions)
W Pawns: Devil-Dogs
B King: Dr. F
B Queen: Mrs. F
B Bishops: Frank & Bobo
B Knights: Lar & Brain-Guy
B Rooks: Castle Forrester & Gizmonics
B Pawns: Mole Men
What do you think, sirs?
Didn’t Kevin Murphy directly imply that the First Spaceship on Mars was the worst MST3K eposode in the Amazing Collossal Episode Guide? When he said that they all got together and had a big cry? + I hated Future War. That’s the 80’s dinosaur one with the nun? I was bored with the movie and hated the riffing.
[First Spaceship on Venus](not Mars – my bad.)
Just pre-ordered it.
I don’t think the whining is totally unjustified. After all, fans of other shows get to have their episode in season sets that cost a fraction, per disc, of MST3K episodes. Some will likely not be released for many years to come, if ever. We have it kind of hard. So cut us some slack.
But, again, i already have most of the episodes I care about, anyway.
And re:Diabolik, that’s one “landmark” episode that I can’t get excited about. I seem to remember the riffing was pretty uninspired. The final host-segment was by far the best part of it. If anyone unfamiliar with the show inquired about the last episode, I would show them Merlin’s Shop. I’m sure we can all agree that truly is a classic episode. And, technically, it was the last shown.
Meh, I’m buying it. So… yeah, you haters go enjoy doing whatever it is you do.
Kinda Off Topic, I’m looking for a particualar riff. It’s in a scene that’s very confusing(I know, I know, every episode) and it causes Tom to exclaim “Y’know this is great and all…BUT WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON!?!” If anyone can tell me what episode this is in I’m certain God will release a limited edition DVD boxset of the KTMA episodes. Thanks for any help.
I recently got the entire series of The Adventures of Brisco County Junior, brand-new and factory wrapped, off of Amazon for approximately $1 per episode. Think about it. MST3K will never go for remotely that cheap. And it’s not like TAOBCJr didn’t have a following. It’s just that they didn’t have to grapple over the rights to every individual episode to release it in one set.
I’d certainly say that MST3K fans are the most deprived fans in TV-dom. And think of all of the shriekingly inane television shows that are choking the bargain bins out there. Think of the typical fans of those shows. Now think of the typical fan of MST3K – bright and witty at the very least. Think of all of the sickening whiny fan-boys out there stealing your precious oxygen. Now think of all your friends in the MST3K community, whose plight you can at least relate to. I see no point to the inter-board bickering whatsoever. Shout Factory isn’t going to throw in the towel for some fan gripes that they were surely expecting all along.
OTOH, no reason to malign SF, or rub it in with “Well, I’m not wasting money on this set.” Why not leave it at “this isn’t a must-have set, but I’ll probably pick it up someday. But I’d sure jump on it if it has X episode on it!”
Personally, I never have liked buying the show in sets, anyway. But that’s just the way it is.
I had already preordered (and will for any MST3K sets released) and I already have what is arguably the best set of entire MST3K episodes available on DVD anyway (so I’m never *too* excited about commercial releases — but as a completist I feel the need to buy whatever is out there) but I do feel disappointment here and it’s not for the fans.
Let’s face it, the fan(atic)s will buy whatever is released. But I’m guessing that isn’t enough to support a lot of releases or Rhino wouldn’t have given up the ghost. It would have been great if the “20th Anniversary” set could have been something that had a chance of making *some* of the general public MST3K fans, but does anyone really think this set will do that? I can’t see anyone who doesn’t know the show buying this or, if having bought it, deciding they will buy more episodes.
“Spaceship” is a *terrible* show for someone’s first glimpse of MST3K — nevermind that I happen to like the goofy movie and okay riffing — it just will be awful if that’s what someone first watches. “Laserblast” as sought after as it is/was is not a good choice either, as season seven won’t make any sense to anyone who hasn’t seen something from the Mike era prior to that.
I guess all I’m saying is that as happy as I am to get any of these, I think this is a marketing mistake if Shout! really wanted to make an impact and possibly get some new folks on board to the greatest show on earth. We really need that, because if it continues to be supported only by dilettantes we are not going to see many releases, trust me. As much as I hate to agree with the masses (and because I actually like Mike better than Joel) I do think two Joel episodes, a Mike PRIOR to season 7, and then perhaps “LaserBlast” would have been a much much better choice.
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
Since this discussion is kind of leaning towards what’s “Landmark” and what’s not (and my opinion of the set is basically muted contentment and relief for four new episodes), here’s my opinion on what episodes can be (not necessarily are) considered “Landmark”, along with their likelihood of release per the Ward E listing:
101 – The Crawling Eye – First cable episode, natch.
201 – Rocketship X-M – First episode with Frank, Kevin as Tom, new set design.
212 – Godzilla vs. Megalon – Widely regarded as one of their best episodes. (Released)
303 – Pod People – Widely regarded as one of their best episodes. (Released)
319 – War of the Colossal Beast – Mr. B. Natural, regarded as possibly the best short they’ve done (Mr B. was released separately.)
401 – Space Travellers – only movie to win an Oscar
424 – Manos: the Hands of Fate – Widely regarded as one of their best episodes. (Released)
512 – Mitchell – Last Joel, first appearance of Mike as Mike, and just plain Joe Don Baker (Released)
513 – The Brain That Wouldn’t Die – First full Mike episode (released)
624 – Samson vs. the Vampire Women – Last Frank
701 – Night of the Blood Beast – First Pearl, Thanksgiving Bumpers
706 – Laserblast – Last Trace as Dr. F and Crow, Last Comedy Central Episode (Being Released)
801 – Revenge of the Creature – First Sci-Fi, First Bill as Crow, First Kevin as Bobo, First Pearl as main villain.
805 – The Thing That Couldn’t Die – First Bill as Observer.
1001 – Soultaker – Guest Appearances of Joel and Frank.
1013 – Diabolik – Final episode.
Given what’s already been released and the likelihood of the remaining “Landmarks” being released, I think getting even one of the biggies is worth applauding
Because we are talking about the 20th Anniversary Collector’s Set… here’s a special treat, from your friend, the Smog Monster: What I alluded to earlier, Kevin Murphy’s rebuke of First Spaceship on Venus, quoted from MST3K’s Amazing Colossal Episode Guide. Enjoy!
“The really long Klack food products sketch, the entirely non sequitur visit from a gorilla, the lame foam gag, the sarcasm sequencer, TV’s Fish in a junk drawer…we went on vacation right after this show. We hugged our loved ones, gathered ’round the holiday table, and I for one had a good long cry.”